@Volcanic

First dates are generally something in the city center. I would organize date in evening at around 6-7pm and we would go to a comfy place for a glass of wine, then walk in park. Usually the date will last 1-3 hours depending on how much fun we are having. I try to focus on engaging her emotions, asking questions. There is almost never awkward silence, the girl speaks most of the time. I don't babble. I will hug her, take her coat, try to find reasons to touch her and escalate. I try to do everything by the book. They often feel nice at end of date. Sometimes I will give a little kiss, sometimes not. The overall trend is when I want to invite them for more dates, they get cold, flakey, uninterested, distant, etc... I've noticed this playing out...for the last 10 years, so it's a real problem. I've looksmaxxed and moneymaxxed during that time, so it's not like I lack confidence. I can approach any woman on the street no matter how hot, sometimes I might look cringe, but I am not afraid of women. I am just upset that there is this tendency of them getting disinterested in me.

Geezus, ten years? Reads to me like these gals definitely know that you're interested in them at the start, you might come off as too interested. How often do your dates show you affection? Simple things. Hugging you, kissing you, letting their touching you linger to get your attention, holding your hand on their initiative. That sort of thing. Is this behavior something you've observed with chicks you've dated through hookup apps, or does this include the chicks you make dates with you met in person?

@carnold03 First dates are generally something in the city center. I would organize date in evening at around 6-7pm and we would go to a comfy place for a glass of wine, then walk in park. Usually the date will last 1-3 hours depending on how much fun we are having. I try to focus on engaging her emotions, asking questions. There is almost never awkward silence, the girl speaks most of the time. I don't babble. I will hug her, take her coat, try to find reasons to touch her and escalate. I try to do everything by the book. They often feel nice at end of date. Sometimes I will give a little kiss, sometimes not. The overall trend is when I want to invite them for more dates, they get cold, flakey, uninterested, distant, etc... I've noticed this playing out...for the last 10 years, so it's a real problem. I've looksmaxxed and moneymaxxed during that time, so it's not like I lack confidence. I can approach any woman on the street no matter how hot, sometimes I might look cringe, but I am not afraid of women. I am just upset that there is this tendency of them getting disinterested in me.

@Volcanic

Girls lose interest after dates and communication fizzles out..Help!?

Hi, I'm Greg and I'm here to solve my single biggest problem: [b]girls lose interest after dates and communication fizzles out.[/b]

[b]My stats:[/b] 32 yo, get regularly clocked at 23-26 due to youthful face. 6'2'' (6'4'' in thick heels, insoles), jacked, tan, 200 lbs or so, bf ranges from 12-15%. Head full of hair. Good style (I've improved wardrobe over years and even had a stylist). [b]Hobbies: [/b]various sports, gym, reading books, did some dancing. Have enough money and my own small business and am constantly improving it. [b]Life Purpose: [/b]My purpose is a company / startup I'm working on, so I have that part handled. Current dating goal: Improve my phone, date to lay conversion with 7/10s by 25%. [b]I currently match with, cold approach and date girls in wide range of 18-33. I use TinderGold and boosts and have a few hundred matches.[/b]

[b] Some dating background:[/b] Right now I have little problems getting numbers on Tinder and even getting first dates. I even get numbers from cold approach on street sometimes.

My problem is usually girls rarely want to do second or third dates.

Sometimes they go on second and third dates, but over time usually like 95% of those relationships fizzle out. There are a few girls I've been seeing for a few months and we've been on a date every few weeks and I even kissed them, but they refuse to come to my place and basically show little interest, never message me, etc. Even though I tried to escalate with these girls, touching, even kissing and they seem excited on dates, they are very hesitant to meeting over again and going to my place.

My shirtless pic mostly gets me the Tinder matches and girls generally acknowledge that I have a very good body. I've been complimented on my physical attributes (mostly body). Regarding face: I have whitened teeth, tan, full head of hair, good skin. Still, my body is my selling point though.

When girls have sex with me, they will always want to stick around, but I VERY rarely get to that part.

I am not needy and text mostly for logistics only (once or twice a week) as recommended by pretty much everyone "pickup artist" in the industry. Although I'm not sure how good of a suggestion it really is...

I tried listening to friend and being more of a nice guy and telling a girl I liked her after the date and messaging very soon, but they lost interest immediately, so I don't do it anymore and take my time so they get to wonder. (although I have suspicions they just lose interest).

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I don't have oneitis or anything, it's just the general trend I've seen over the years that I'm not happy with. I've had had 3 girlfriends before from LTRs (1 hot 8/10 from cold approach, 1 above avg 6.5/10 from cold approach, 1 average 5/10 from Tinder), but it was a pain in ass to get them (had to go on so many dates and through so many numbers). I've had one first night lay when Tinder girl basically took me, so I have the body and looks to pull those. I've had second date lays and I've had beautiful girls (8/10 20yos) come over to my apartment to have sex on first date, but I fucked up by being anxious that time.

[b]If I had to make a guess the problem for another person in my situation for a chance to win a million dollars, here could be the possible reasons:[/b]

1) I might be too jittery and don't have a really low, super masculine voice (my voice is average, but its not "sexy"). It's lower in the mornings and when I'm relaxed or on a xannie. I have taken some SSRIs recently that have made me way more chill, but I'm still not getting dating results.

2) I maybe appear too cold or distant? Maybe girls expect me to message them after dates, maybe they expect flowers or some more fancier stuff on dates? I don't know how to fix this. Russian girls especially, they have different culture. I date both international and Russian girls. I don't discriminate.

3) I think problem is either related to body language, communication nuance or voice, but I'm not sure which and combination of which. I even went so far as to send examples of my voice so vocal surgeon who does voice lowering and they said I already have reasonably low voice and if they lower it, they would reduce resonance and I would benefit most from vocal training if I want to perfect it, but its generally good if I'm relaxed, so idk.

If I had to choose[b] ONE thing[/b] that might be a problem for this person (me), [b]my inclination would be that it's somewhat related to behavior, communication via TEXT.[/b] I think maybe they want me to write to them more, but I'm not sure this is a good idea, since it's almost never recommended by dating coaches.

On dates, I [b]LISTEN [/b]a lot to these girls, speak very little and make observations about emotional stuff (It seems you like to travel a lot, it seems you value X, etc...), I try to talk about their relationships, what men they like, try to get a bit sexual, increase intensity, talk about emotions, travels, etc...

Where do I get help and how to fix this?

How do I identify the problem?

I even asked some girls what was wrong, they said they didn't feel the "spark", which probably meant I was not escalating for sexual tension. I fixed that in last dates and touch girls, carry them around, do a quick dance or pat them on the head (if they are shorter) and do playful stuff like that. But the results are still not there.

I just don't know at this point. I've gotten hundreds of numbers, been on like 90+ dates and only had sex with 9 girls during my lifetime (I must admit I had a lot of quality sex in my LTRs) and I'm in my 30, this sucks.

I do reject the girls that are very ugly (usually rotten teeth or obese or something like that), so I guess I have some "standards", but I don't go only for models, although I've been on dates with model tier girls, too. If a girl is 6.5/10+ I will consider her as long as teeth are in relatively good shape. The problem is most of the time [b]they just get unresponsive.[/b]

Looking for any help at this point.

Thank you so much! I hope this forum finally helps me get over this hurdle and help me build a solid rotation of 3-5 hot girls. I'm tired of LTRs at this point.

Seems like your gut's telling you something. Could you describe the typical first dates you take these girls on, how long you've noticed these problems, and how things play out?

Girls lose interest after dates and communication fizzles out..Help!?

Hi, I'm Greg and I'm here to solve my single biggest problem: [b]girls lose interest after dates and communication fizzles out.[/b]

[b]My stats:[/b] 32 yo, get regularly clocked at 23-26 due to youthful face. 6'2'' (6'4'' in thick heels, insoles), jacked, tan, 200 lbs or so, bf ranges from 12-15%. Head full of hair. Good style (I've improved wardrobe over years and even had a stylist). [b]Hobbies: [/b]various sports, gym, reading books, did some dancing. Have enough money and my own small business and am constantly improving it. [b]Life Purpose: [/b]My purpose is a company / startup I'm working on, so I have that part handled. Current dating goal: Improve my phone, date to lay conversion with 7/10s by 25%. [b]I currently match with, cold approach and date girls in wide range of 18-33. I use TinderGold and boosts and have a few hundred matches.[/b]

[b] Some dating background:[/b] Right now I have little problems getting numbers on Tinder and even getting first dates. I even get numbers from cold approach on street sometimes.

My problem is usually girls rarely want to do second or third dates.

Sometimes they go on second and third dates, but over time usually like 95% of those relationships fizzle out.
There are a few girls I've been seeing for a few months and we've been on a date every few weeks and I even kissed them, but they refuse to come to my place and basically show little interest, never message me, etc. Even though I tried to escalate with these girls, touching, even kissing and they seem excited on dates, they are very hesitant to meeting over again and going to my place.

My shirtless pic mostly gets me the Tinder matches and girls generally acknowledge that I have a very good body. I've been complimented on my physical attributes (mostly body). Regarding face: I have whitened teeth, tan, full head of hair, good skin. Still, my body is my selling point though.

When girls have sex with me, they will always want to stick around, but I VERY rarely get to that part.

I am not needy and text mostly for logistics only (once or twice a week) as recommended by pretty much everyone "pickup artist" in the industry. Although I'm not sure how good of a suggestion it really is...

I tried listening to friend and being more of a nice guy and telling a girl I liked her after the date and messaging very soon, but they lost interest immediately, so I don't do it anymore and take my time so they get to wonder. (although I have suspicions they just lose interest).

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I don't have oneitis or anything, it's just the general trend I've seen over the years that I'm not happy with. I've had had 3 girlfriends before from LTRs (1 hot 8/10 from cold approach, 1 above avg 6.5/10 from cold approach, 1 average 5/10 from Tinder), but it was a pain in ass to get them (had to go on so many dates and through so many numbers). I've had one first night lay when Tinder girl basically took me, so I have the body and looks to pull those. I've had second date lays and I've had beautiful girls (8/10 20yos) come over to my apartment to have sex on first date, but I fucked up by being anxious that time.

[b]If I had to make a guess the problem for another person in my situation for a chance to win a million dollars, here could be the possible reasons:[/b]

1) I might be too jittery and don't have a really low, super masculine voice (my voice is average, but its not "sexy"). It's lower in the mornings and when I'm relaxed or on a xannie. I have taken some SSRIs recently that have made me way more chill, but I'm still not getting dating results.

2) I maybe appear too cold or distant? Maybe girls expect me to message them after dates, maybe they expect flowers or some more fancier stuff on dates? I don't know how to fix this. Russian girls especially, they have different culture. I date both international and Russian girls. I don't discriminate.

3) I think problem is either related to body language, communication nuance or voice, but I'm not sure which and combination of which. I even went so far as to send examples of my voice so vocal surgeon who does voice lowering and they said I already have reasonably low voice and if they lower it, they would reduce resonance and I would benefit most from vocal training if I want to perfect it, but its generally good if I'm relaxed, so idk.

If I had to choose[b] ONE thing[/b] that might be a problem for this person (me), [b]my inclination would be that it's somewhat related to behavior, communication via TEXT.[/b] I think maybe they want me to write to them more, but I'm not sure this is a good idea, since it's almost never recommended by dating coaches.

On dates, I [b]LISTEN [/b]a lot to these girls, speak very little and make observations about emotional stuff (It seems you like to travel a lot, it seems you value X, etc...), I try to talk about their relationships, what men they like, try to get a bit sexual, increase intensity, talk about emotions, travels, etc...

Where do I get help and how to fix this?

How do I identify the problem?

I even asked some girls what was wrong, they said they didn't feel the "spark", which probably meant I was not escalating for sexual tension. I fixed that in last dates and touch girls, carry them around, do a quick dance or pat them on the head (if they are shorter) and do playful stuff like that. But the results are still not there.

I just don't know at this point. I've gotten hundreds of numbers, been on like 90+ dates and only had sex with 9 girls during my lifetime (I must admit I had a lot of quality sex in my LTRs) and I'm in my 30, this sucks.

I do reject the girls that are very ugly (usually rotten teeth or obese or something like that), so I guess I have some "standards", but I don't go only for models, although I've been on dates with model tier girls, too. If a girl is 6.5/10+ I will consider her as long as teeth are in relatively good shape. The problem is most of the time [b]they just get unresponsive.[/b]

Looking for any help at this point.

Thank you so much! I hope this forum finally helps me get over this hurdle and help me build a solid rotation of 3-5 hot girls. I'm tired of LTRs at this point.

@Volcanic

How to know what mistakes I am making on dates?

I can get dates no problem. I can get numbers from cold approach and from Tinder.

My main problem is that women very rarely want to see me after first date. Maybe with one in ten I get a second date. If I get a second date then I usually get a lay, too.

I have no idea what mistakes I am making on dates.

I listen more than I speak. I ask questions and the girls are usually talking for a really long time with me, because I'm a good listener.

I escalate a bit sexually like touching her by shoulder or back, some light flirting, but nothing heavy. I don't kiss on first date.

My gut instinct is that I don't give enough sexual vibes, but idk. I really don't.

I tried asking girls afterwards what they didn't like (those who rejected 2nd date) and they said that I'm a nice guy and they just didn't feel the vibe.

I have looksmaxxed in gym and have good fashion sense. Girls are initially open and ok going on dates with me, its just that after they spend an hour or two with me, they don't want to see me again.

How can I get at the bottom of this? My goal is to increase % of 1st to 2nd dates.

PS: If I posted this in the wrong section, please direct me to the right section.

Consider investing in a reliable ready reference you can pick up and study to better prepare yourself for engaging the opposite sex. I'd suggest that you get yourself a copy of Doc Love's "The System: The Dating Dictionary". Doc Love, also known as the late Tom Hodges, wrote a weekly advice column that's archive is mirrored on several sites and a podcast. While his media is a bit pricey, it's a solid foundation a guy can branch out from, but I would also suggest you review his advice column to decide if his view on dating and relationships is aligned with what you aspire for yourself. To save yourself a search, give this scribed link a gander to find out if his book is something you'd like to add to your library.

How to know what mistakes I am making on dates?

I can get dates no problem. I can get numbers from cold approach and from Tinder.

My main problem is that women very rarely want to see me after first date. Maybe with one in ten I get a second date. If I get a second date then I usually get a lay, too.

I have no idea what mistakes I am making on dates.

I listen more than I speak. I ask questions and the girls are usually talking for a really long time with me, because I'm a good listener.

I escalate a bit sexually like touching her by shoulder or back, some light flirting, but nothing heavy. I don't kiss on first date.

My gut instinct is that I don't give enough sexual vibes, but idk. I really don't.

I tried asking girls afterwards what they didn't like (those who rejected 2nd date) and they said that I'm a nice guy and they just didn't feel the vibe.

I have looksmaxxed in gym and have good fashion sense. Girls are initially open and ok going on dates with me, its just that after they spend an hour or two with me, they don't want to see me again.

How can I get at the bottom of this? My goal is to increase % of 1st to 2nd dates.

PS: If I posted this in the wrong section, please direct me to the right section.