@Vermillion-Rx Probably I'm not full-blown red pill. I'm honestly dealing with life right now. I don't like to hold a really salty frame about women as it's going to be incredibly hard for me work this way.

All of my female co-workers are going to fuck me up real good if my subconscious frame being "women are all inferior" or "if you are not attractive, you are not a man."

I can't think of a more toxic attitude. As I do have a job and I need my life going on. Not everything is about women and not everything is about sex. Yes, I do need sex. Yes I fucking love women. Yes I wanna fuck a ton of women.

But there is a physical limit in my life whereas I can't hold a crazy frame to enter workforce this way, no matter how blue pill that sounds. But as far as I'm concerned, holding the idea of "If I'm not hot enough, i'm not unworthy as a man" is an incredibly self-sabotaging belief that's going to put you down every time you talk to a pretty woman in your social circle.

Because this tells me only one thing:

I am only good enough when I become attractive.

Life ain't that hard man. Live and let live. I don't care how other people look at me, less about the whole attractiveness thing going on. If she doesn't like me, cool, move on. I don't give a shit what reasons that are. She can give me, awesome, still not really gonna change for her. Because I don't really give a fuck about women.

I have absolutely zero interests in becoming so called attractive then i become good enough. It's like a fucking badge you are trying to earn.

That's the most toxic attitude. I'm not trying to change any of you, I"m just speaking from my real thoughts./

I have no interests in pleasing anyone else but myself. And I'm also not interested in earning a badge of honor that says "attractive" to it.

The idea is simple:

I am already good enough. If she doesn't like me, that's her problem. She IS wasting my time.

I move on and go find someone else to date.

Frankly Gs, this is the exact mentality ugly women pull when they get rejected. They will have literally "unbeatable ego" without shame. You should honestly have some too.

@EugeneRider

This is the epitome of female mentality.

Take a look at this.

+ Most men can relate to this, even I can.

You go there and you want some feedback. Some constructive feedback on how to improve and how to get better at dating.

Then all you get is attitude.

"Women don't owe you explanations. Women don't owe you criticism. Women don't owe you any feedback."

It's the epitome of female entitlement and uncooperativeness. These people are incredibly difficult to work with.

Consider investing into a reliable ready reference you can pick up and study to better prepare yourself for engaging the opposite sex. I'd suggest that you get yourself a copy of Doc Love's "The System: The Dating Dictionary". Doc Love, who until his passing was also known as Tom Hodges, wrote a weekly advice column that's archive is mirrored on several mens focused sites and a podcast. His media is a bit pricey, but it's a solid foundation a guy can branch out from in RP aware circles. I'd suggest you review his advice column to decide if his view on dating and relationships is aligned with what you aspire for yourself. To save yourself a search, give this scribed link a gander to find out if his book is something you'd like to add to your library.

@woodsmoke This is a decent answer. I'd clap for it.

"You can argue it shouldn't be that way and, in truth, I'd agree with you. In any reasonable culture properly ruled by strong patriarchal values, this desire for the perfect fantasy to poof into a woman's life fully formed, like Athena springing from Zeus' head clad in armor and wielding a spear, would be tempered by the men in her life imposing some necessary reality and bringing her expectations back down to Earth. That wouldn't make the fantasy go away, of course; women will always want what they want, but constraining their hypergamous instincts is better for everyone involved in this thing we call civilization."

Everybody needs some reality checks. Women need them specifically, and pressingly so. Look, I believe women from across cultures are difficult to deal with. I've read certain Japanese Males Rights movements on similar issues with Japanese women demanding unreasonable standards from Japanese men as well---when we crown Japan for the most submissive women of all the countries we can find.

This is why, when I read red pill, I believe change is necessary. Influence is a two-way thing. Adapt to certain things is never my thing, I'd like to change them based on my preferences and wills. That's when the power of frame comes in. The capability to distort reality.

She needs a reality check. They ALL need a reality check, We can all be salty here and be absolutely depressed about female online delusional comments and feed us even more delusional shit. Or, get into real life, talk to a woman. If she acts delusional, clamp her down. Feed her some reality. If she can't deal with it, that's her problem. You don't lose anything.

"Whether this state of affairs is actually beneficial to them (or anyone else) is immaterial. As long as they have the option to shoot the moon and chase that perfect fantasy, they'll do so. Every time."

This is what we call fantasy. It's a "fantasy". We don't have to fulfill their fantasy. It's also daydreaming. It's things that will never be realized. They don't exist. That's why it's a fantasy and they will never get it even though they forever chase it. This is like you are trying to catch your own shadows, the faster you move, the further it gets from you.

The way to berak fantasy is also extremely easy, give them the brutal truth and reality check. The ability to hurt, challenge and disrespect women, I believe, is either from Red Pill or PUA. You use this as a tool to cull their behaviors, to stop them from chasing fantasies, since they don't exist, so that they can bring their eyes down from the moon, to the person standing under the moon.

I don't think women's crazy high standards are that big of a far stretch. It's just a form of baby cry that tries to tell you that they need a lot and need to be appreciated a lot.

I can't remember who said it. You either match what a woman want in a man, or you create the illusion of that figure, even a trace of it. If her standards are crazy fucked up, that there is no one to match that standards, you can either:

A. Create an illusion (PUA & Game) B. Be honest about your situation (Truth & Vulnerability) C. Walk away (Walk Away Power)

I think all three work fine. Sex isn't the end goal. I believe me feeling good in the whole interaction is the ultimate determinator of whatever hell that is.

"Unfortunately we don't live in such a culture. Generally speaking, there are no checks on women's hypergamy in industrialized western nations. They're free to shoot for and demand nothing less than the moon and stars without any real opposition. "

Honestly I believe the guys in manosphere doing podcasts are literally giving them the "real opposition". Kevin Samuels, Fresh & Fit, Andrew Tate, Whatever podcast. There are way too many propaganda-like media that are telling women to settle down, stop dreaming so crazily, it's ok to have your fantasy, but shut the fuck up when you do meet a man and you are in a relationship.

Equilibrium. Beauty of life. There are people that try to stack up women's bars, then there are people that try everything to press it down. I believe I'm on the press-it-down side now.

I mean, you can come join and press them the whole down with me too.

@Problematic_Browser "you are not entitled to shit from women."

That's what I'm talking about. This is literally getting into a woman's frame. Or getting into women's frame. However you look at it.

Why can't you be entitled to shit from them? They seem to be relatively entitled to your money, your power and your social status?

Rejection is a shit feedback. If I got a program that's fucked, I check each line to see where I fcuekd up. You can't just give me an ERROR program, and expect me to troubleshoot it without letting me open the source file and let me check on what the fuck is going on.

" take baby steps to finally being attractive to women. "

Everybody takes baby steps into becoming skilled something. Nobody is born master level. No master is born. Every master is learned. That's the reality of things.

I"ve never seen a man being the fabled natural born good with women. Nobody is that way. For everything on this planet, you discover it, you study it then you deconstruct it. That's the end of it.

People born hot had a head-start then people who glow up later in life, so they may have more experiences than those who didn't initially, but soon catch on later in life.

No one is born a natural.

@Problematic_Browser My G, no offense.

" if you're not attractive - they don't see you as a man."

This is seriously incel shit man.

That's why the reason that the guy in that reddit thread was completely justifiable to request a proper feedback from that woman without all that crazy entitlement bullshit and haywire attitude.

They framed you so hard now your belief being, "You are unworthy of absolute respect if you are not attractive."

My guy, there is some self-esteem problem you need to work on. You are still going to be respected if you just socialize normally, work out, get a decent job, do your work diligently. From my own experience, I never had a woman disrespected me just because I'm "ugly" or "unattractive".

" if you're not attractive - they don't see you as a man."

Shit frame.

@Lone_Ranger

You guys talk about red pill. But the least thing you'd like to do is to actually challenge a woman. You are such as wuss, you don't even think twice about the fact that she was being a bitch,

Nobody needs to listen to the idea of "You don't listen to women for advice. You look at what they do."

God, FFS, for sure, OK!

But she was being bitchy. And she literally attacked the man with her entitlement as well. You guys kind of just, "Well TOLD YA! Never listen to advice women given."

What kind of stupid shit is that?

100% tune out of women's words is insanity to me. The more I communicate with women, the better I get with the whole man-woman dynamic thing. Yes, I do get salty from time to time. But tuning out of their words is stupid.

Like I said, I listen to what they say, then I judge it fairly. If it's a shit behavior, it NEEDS to be called out. It's the exact same thing when your kid chose to pee in public places, you tell them to stop it or hold them to stop it or hold them accountable for it.

Honestly. Being unwilling and being afraid to challenge women is the biggest beta thing I observe from TRP.

@Typo-MAGAshiv I'm talking about getting into the mentality and agree with women for no reason whatsoever.

I'm not denying the fact that you shouldn't listen to a woman for dating advice.

But I'm talking about decency issue here. This applies to everybody. She IS NO God. She can't behave that way.

Judging from the several comments on this thread, all I see is that "you have no right to tell a woman what to do." Really? I have no right? When woman can cull you, the man, into exactly the way she wants you to behave.

That's manipulation, that's framing the world her way, that's you accepting her frame and getting into it and be a beta bitch.

Look, no offense to you guys. But decency problem is decency problem. I don't care whether she is a woman or not, she's a monkey, it needs to be adjusted.