@Lionsmane8

if you want to build a society you will need to have a system that addresses everybody

Everyone can be addressed by making it as easy for men to leave a marriage, rather than trying to go backwards in time. Socially enforced beta buxing is just as much a miserable existence for men as it is for women, unless your only metric for a "successful marriage" is that it lasts, now matter how much nagging, disrespect, and how dead a bedroom.

There are plenty of European countries that are approximating something akin to "fair divorce laws"; No alimony, prenups by default, 50/50 custody if no agreement, no family court (just regular court with regular burden of proof), no lawyers involved in 95+ % of divorces, no "divorce industry" etc.

It's perfectly doable, and I'd much rather see society develop that further, rather than going back to naive, blue pill traditionalism.

@deeplydisturbed

When a father says something and it shows up in the world, that is the easy part.

But when a father says something, and almost ALL of the cool people - adults included- are saying the opposite, THAT is when shit gets hard.

Ah, "the village". They say it takes a village to raise a child. But the village is also largely populated by weak minded individuals, who readily sacrifice their own children on the altar of "the current thing", without giving it so much as a second thought.

It's going to be interesting to navigate. I can only imagine so far, as my kid is still young enough that I can control what influences he gets exposed to. But I know better men than myself who've struggled with that, once smart phones and social media enter the stage.

I suppose it boils down to spending enough time with your kids, making sure you're still an influence even as they start looking for influence elsewhere (as they should).

@Durek_The_Bald

"Don't let your kids do things that make you dislike them".

Say what you want about Jordan Peterson, but I think that's a pretty profound little nugget of wisdom for parental navigation purposes.

Gathering advice and perspectives is of course good, but ultimately it comes down to your own frame. What me and others here, or some chick, think of as "slutty" or "skimpy", may not be the same as for you.

But in the end, you don't really need a better reason for putting your foot down, other than it would make you dislike her. You're a man, so you know roughly what other men think, the impression they get, how they'd categorise her etc.

As long as you're able to touch grass, and realise you're coming from the perspective of someone fast approaching old fartedness, I don't think you can go much wrong with your own opinions.

For the record, I don't have a daughter, only a son. So take it for what it is.

I think we all can do better than the likes of enabler Peterson and his child molesting wife, but this reminds me of a thread @adam-l started sometime last year regarding parentage folks might want to check out. Staying on topic though, the most basic idea that all parents should consider when it comes to the subject of influencing your children is the following. A parents authority is the first worldly authority children will come to know and experience. Not the clergymen, the doctors, the military, teachers, police, or day-care workers, but their parents. The experiences we have with our parents, specifically how they exercised the authority that they had over us, significantly influences how we will perceive all other worldly authority we interact with. Eventually, these experiences, combined with the morals and/or ethics we develop, if any, will inform us in how we exercise what authority we are granted over others.

There's a lot to mull over with that and I'm curious what the other parents think. It made me think of a youtube video analysis of HBO's "Band of Brothers" series from 1992 where the host presents "The Boss vs The Leader". I remembered watching the series back in 2000's on dvd and gleaning some remarkable insights into lessons on masculinity the boomer gen felt inclined to not impart to mine.

@Newbie-Casanova I can't make an assessment of your relationship, as there are so many aspects I'm not privy to. What's the nature of said experience? Boyfriends? ONS? Gangbangs? And what's your experience like? Is it her experience that's the issue, or your comparative lack of? What's your sex life like? How present is your hamster when you assess yourself, your girl and your relationship?

But I have to comment on this one though:

She complains sometimes as well

So, women and their complaints is a bit of a pet object of mental masturbation for me, and something I continuously work on not letting annoy the shit out of me in my daily life. I mean, just look around you, listen to the women in your life and elsewhere, and notice how negatively focused women are, and how much they complain.

Now, they might not complain about you, but they will complain to you; about colleagues, about their friends, about women's issues, about other parents, about pains and ills, about the teachers in the kids' school etc. Anything that isn't quite up to utopian ideals can be something on which to construct a complaint. And granted, mostly it's probably going to be small, insignificant complaints, stuff you should easily be able to ignore. But there's always a complaint to be had.

I'm convinced it comes down to biology. First of all, this is how women establish hierarchies amongst themselves. If they have an in-group of some sort, sometimes only parts of that in-group will gather to complain about some other member(s) of the group. So this is how women position themselves, by building alliances with other women through having common complaints.

Secondly, from an evo-psych perspective, it makes absolute sense that a creature that has evolved around being catered to by the species (women have always been considered a precious resource due to the way we procreate) will have an evolved mentality that says: "If I have a complaint, it means someone somewhere owes me something".

So you could say, for a woman to have a complaint, is like for a man to have money in the bank.

In other words, you are never ever going to find a woman who doesn't "sometimes complain". Get real. In fact, "sometimes complaining" is probably already showing some restraint. If it were up to her, and she didn't give a fuck what you thought, she probably would do nothing in her life but to complain, shouting it from the roof tops to anyone willing to listen (you know, how women with no man in their life do).

So as for women having complaints, I think that's just one of those things you're going to have to learn how to deal with as a a man, if you're going to have committed relationships to women. All those small complaints that aren't about you, you're just going to have to learn to ignore them, and not let them infect your mood. Have some fun with them, make fun of them. If she's not complaining about you, then you should probably be content with that.

But if you dump some girl because she "sometimes complains", then you're going to have the exact same problem with the next one. And it's going to remain an annoyance for you until you learn how to effectively deal with it in ways that maintain good moods.

@deeplydisturbed

"Don't let your kids do things that make you dislike them".

Say what you want about Jordan Peterson, but I think that's a pretty profound little nugget of wisdom for parental navigation purposes.

Gathering advice and perspectives is of course good, but ultimately it comes down to your own frame. What me and others here, or some chick, think of as "slutty" or "skimpy", may not be the same as for you.

But in the end, you don't really need a better reason for putting your foot down, other than it would make you dislike her. You're a man, so you know roughly what other men think, the impression they get, how they'd categorise her etc.

As long as you're able to touch grass, and realise you're coming from the perspective of someone fast approaching old fartedness, I don't think you can go much wrong with your own opinions.

For the record, I don't have a daughter, only a son. So take it for what it is.