@Durek_The_Bald

That is how they end up single mothers. Because they either make the men in their life unhappy, or quickly realise there's not much more to gain than a quick lay here. And so the men don't stick around.

Heh, this reads somewhat similar to one of my most upvoted comments of all time, except that you're missing that it's not all one or the other (choosing bad boys or ruining things with a decent man): there's a lot of both out there.

Haven't you seen anything about hybristophilia?

Never seen all the women who fangirl gush over criminals, even serial killers?

Side note- of particular amusement to me are the women who go ga-ga for Jeffrey Dahmer:

1) he was a goddamn serial killer

2) he was a goddamn homosexual, and would not have been the least bit interested in any woman

3) he's fucking dead!

So anyway, yeah, choosing the bad boy happens a lot too. I've witnessed it IRL, battered wives going back to the husband who beat her ass, etc.

These same women will fuck it up if they ever get a chance with as decent guy. I've seen that as well (and been the guy they fucked up with).

@polishknight continued....

While it’s important to differentiate between how things are and the way they ought to be, it’s also important for us to accept the mantle of leadership because as much as women gripe about wanting men to “lead” (which means to do what’s necessary because they just want to sit around and do nothing), they have a point in that if anyone is going to fix this in our own personal lives and at a community, it’s us. That’s why we’re here after all. There are hundreds of lurkers who simply read TRP and WAATGM and take away valuable lessons without contributing and that’s ok, but if men don’t do something, we cede the initiative to the worst of human impulses

I have a couple of issues with this, personally:

First of all, this sounds like "movement" speech. Like we're here, in this red pill space, to "save the West", and "hold women accountable". To "teach them" what they really should be doing, feeling, etc. That's bordering on "Men's Rights Activism" as far as I'm concerned. That's fine for those who want to do that, and I don't have an issue with there being space for that as well. But to me, personally, that's not what TRP is about.

Secondly, even if one wants to take the "activism" route, I don't think telling women shit is a fruitful strategy. The MRAs have been trying this for decades (appealing to fairness, duty, future of society etc.), and with very little to show for it. Quite ironically, Male's Right Activism is still at a place where a woman's voice carry more weight than that of a man (hence all the most famous, listened to MRAs are women). It's ironic, because it demonstrates the futility of arguing against human natur, rather than to just adapt.

Now, the MGTOWs on the other hand, have accomplished much more in a shorter time span by simply adapting, following that adaptation to its logical conclusion, and walking away. One can of course say a lot about those who label themselves as MGTOWs ("just sent their own way" etc.), but the increasing numbers of men who simply refuse to elope, get married, and have kids have got women worried. A lot of them have probably never heard of 'MGTOW', but just have a gut feeling that tells them "naw, I'm not doing that".

And that's what makes women think: When things start to have actual, real world consequences for what they imagined their lives would become. Being told stuff doesn't do shit for women, they even have a word for that ("mansplaining"). They need to feel it in the core of their being, the existential dread. And that's why MGTOW gets some things rolling, whilst MRA doesn't.

One simply cannot tell women to "lower their standards". Why? Because they don't feel like lowering their standards. And that's the end of that. They know they will be equally unhappy if they find a guy to elope with be ause they "lowered their standard". So might as well be unhappy, and ride the cock carousel with men they at least are into. "The heart wants what the heart wants" is what rules women and their choices.

But let's say, for the sake of argument, a bunch of men online could convince womanhood to lower their standards: Even then, what good would that do for men? Which man out there wants to get with a woman because she "lowered her standards" for him? We know where that ends: It ends in r/deadbedrooms , then r/divorce_men and r/divorcedads. That's where that ends.

So the answer is to be as attractive as you can (the red pill), so that you can call the shots in your personal sphere, even when making room for women in there. Or alternatively, if someone can't quite get there, walk away, and rule your own personal sphere without women in it. Telling women shit, like to "lower their standards", does nothing for men.

WAATGM’s scope is to laugh at the delusional entitlements of modern women and not to respectfully criticize men which is what TRP is for. Since so much shame is directed at men, perhaps it makes sense to state it as, what I seek to do with my daughter, is redirection rather than criticism although sometimes one cannot avoid criticism.

I get that. And that's fine for what it is.

Finally, whenever a woman says “nice guy” in this context, it’s 99% (yeah, I have a study for that!) likely that they’re simply projecting or rationalizing their own unreasonable standards or selfishness onto the men they reject. I disagree with the context of your criticism because it lends credibility to this woman’s thinking.

I think it's kind of absurd to swallow the red pill on one hand, and then on the other hand be upset when women confirm the red pill. Yes, this is what they're like. This is their nature. They think like that because they feel like that because they're biologically programmed to.

Also, we criticise women for creating NiceGuys by not being honest about what they want, and what really makes them tick. But then, when they give us the honest truth, we're upset about that too.

Guys need to make up our minds; Are we red pilled, or are we not?

@polishknight

advised me to not see past each other so I’ll start by (hoping) that I get your point that “nice guys” are dangerous, so to speak, both in terms of being too meek to stand up for themselves when needed or snapping later. Tell me if I got that wrong, please

You've got that right.

I disagree with you that this is something women are, “evolutionary repulsed” by them for “personal safety” though. After all, what we laughably observe on WAATGM is how women are AWFUL at picking men chasing after bad boys or winding up as single mothers. It’s like leaving kids alone in a candy shop expecting them to make proper nutritional decisions.

I think the idea of women being single mothers because they choose "bad boys" is a flawed narrative, which buys into women's post hoc rationalisations, and rewriting of history. It is also a classic NiceGuy narrative ("I am good, I don't get laid. Men who get laid are bad men").

The reality is rather that even so called "bad boys", "fuck boys", or whatever feminised jargon one chooses to use, want a good women to love, and to be loved by. They want the comfort of a good, functional, fulfilling relationship as well, as most people (including men) do). Actual "bad men" are far and few between.

It's mainly the women that don't measure up - not the men. That is how they end up single mothers. Because they either make the men in their life unhappy, or quickly realise there's not much more to gain than a quick lay here. And so the men don't stick around.

It’s my theory that modern women act this way due to childish immaturity (simply being bratty) and society not holding them to higher standards combined with a society that regards men as sub-human with chivalry/feminism regarding women as “goddesses” or “princesses” and men expected to literally earn our humanity and to continually have it challenged. Like the police staging a break-in into your home if you left the window open for a few minutes and executing you for being so careless.

Absolutely. At least since the 70's, women have been brought up to be raging narcissists. We raise the boys in a way to teach them to handle their own nature, and to keep their nature in check. But girls? We raise them to believe they can have anything, that they're always right, and that there exists no darker side to their nature that needs to be kept in check.

...which again supports what I was saying in the paragraph above. The "bad men get laid" myth needs to die. No, they're good men too. It's the women who don't deserve to keep them, and so the man moves on to the next - because he can, and he should.

It’s worth pointing out here that we take it for granted that MOST men are “nice” (in the sense of being kind) and we’re now actively mocking it. Sheesh, imagine visiting Japan and marveling at the clean streets and polite behavior and then mocking it as being “too nice”. That we get “bored” with it because it violates our knuckle-dragging evolutionary instincts to act out in public or to express individuality at all times. That’s precisely what’s happening with western tourists visiting there which disgusts the Japanese and rightly so.

Once again I want to make clear that "nice" is not the same as "kind", or "good", or even "polite". "Nice" is just an outer layer - a certain way to behave, a certain persona to present, because one thinks this is what will give the greatest return. It gets mocked because, at times, it's so transparent what the schtick really is. Think "male feminist" as an example.

Having going outside of the USA, it marveled me at how, well, things “should” be because that’s precisely how they are, within limits, elsewhere. Women who can act mature and responsible and even, I daresay, LIKABLE. It ASTONISHED me how I actually ENJOYED being around women outside of the USA. That they were genuinely fun, interesting, and even admirable without being masculine or having some agenda

Been a long time since I've lived in the U.S., and I'll keep in mind that the frustration I see online is probably not representative of the entire picture. But it does in deed seem like U.S. women are the absolute worst of women this planet has to offer.

Gotta go now. Maybe I'll reply to the last couple of paragraphs later.

@Durek_The_Bald

It's such a weird flex. I mean, if true, it basically means you're retarded. It's like not being able to build with freaking Duplos.

Strongly agree.

There was a conversation between me and @houseoftolstoy at the WAATGM subreddit a few years back along these lines (search results at Red Archive are too much to sort through). Pretty much, if you can't cook, you're not a functional adult. That goes for both men and women.

You follow a recipe, and do exactly what it says in there, one step after the other. And voila, you get a meal.

At the beginner level, yes.

When you get good, you can look over a few recipes, take what you know you like from each and modify according to taste.

Example: my wife and I both will almost always use way more garlic, onion, rosemary, carrots, etc than recipes call for.