@coolsocks00

These are political talking points perpetuated by the media. Political.

I strongly disagree. What media outlets or politicians/parties are talking about these issues at all right now? They're focusing on trivial wedge issues while ignoring this elephant in the room.

I also disagree with your conclusion that the size of the national debt isn't a problem when it doubled from the 80 year average of ~65% to 132% in one fucking year. What you say about debt leverage only works when debt is sensibly managed. Since 2020 it's like America has gone into fuck-tomorrow mode like a gambling or drug addict,''

Tracking the necessary data isn't the problem It definitely is.

I'm not saying tracking the data isn't necessary; it obviously IS necessary for rational planning and control, and the ability to do so has scaled up well over the last century thanks to technology.

The problem is we don't have the will to keep sane, rational, personally responsible and accountable entities at the controls of the economy in either government or corporate arenas. Everything is getting corrupted into dismantling the engines of wealth production and "privatizing" public assets, and funneling the spoils to a small elite class, paypig masses bedamned.

@MentORPHEUS

Debt to GDP ratio hit 123% in 2022. Countries are walking away from the Petrodollar and not buying our treasury bonds. The US economy is a dead man walking at this point. We will never recover, the debt will never be repaid.

These are political talking points perpetuated by the media. Political.

The total quantity of debt is not important, the servicing cost is. The cost is consistently lower than GDP growth. If you understand investment leveraging, you also understand how debt can be useful.

So there’s no need to pay off the debt, and there’s certainly no political will to do so, on either side. You think people want to pay higher taxes to remove a problem that’s not an actual problem? Hell no. And talk about economic mismanagement if you were to do so.

Tracking the necessary data isn't the problem

It definitely is. How else would distributors in a planned economy know which resources are needed where? They cant. What price mechanism would actually work? None.

problem, it's keeping crooked players out of the game.

Another problem for sure.

@coolsocks00

i wonder by what metrics you think the US economy is doing so poorly in the first place. It’s doing quite well by most standards, surprisingly so even.

Debt to GDP ratio hit 123% in 2022. Countries are walking away from the Petrodollar and not buying our treasury bonds. The US economy is a dead man walking at this point. We will never recover, the debt will never be repaid.

In a small scale community, a tribe or a family, all of these soc/com ideals fare better, because there’s less information to track.

Tracking the necessary data isn't the problem, it's keeping crooked players out of the game. That's the part I see as failing at the scale of countries right now. Phenomena like regulatory capture make extreme non-merocratic concentration of wealth and debt slavery of the masses inevitable.

@MentORPHEUS i just get eye twitching anytime these terms are brought up. Capitalism and socialism are both outdated, ill defined terms, and discussing them broadly is pointless because of the lack of specificity.

When someone states that they are ‘for’ one or the other, you generally know right away, they dont understand economics and/or are simply an ideologue on the topic.

I get what you’re trying to say though, but i wonder by what metrics you think the US economy is doing so poorly in the first place. It’s doing quite well by most standards, surprisingly so even.

On the idea of planned economies i agree, the tools of data tracking and handling required to make that work well at any large scale dont exist. In a small scale community, a tribe or a family, all of these soc/com ideals fare better, because there’s less information to track.