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@CainPrice To be fair its both internal and external. To go to Homer again, or Beowulf, or the sagas or Gilgamesh or even the early books of the bible, the Heroes have to have utility to each other and their peoples but they also do stuff for their own glory or their own personal desires that has no utility. Its when they align the two aims that they start to be heroes of undying fame.

Achilles is too proud (even though he is wronged and deserves to be pissed off. He won't take an exceptionally generous compensation package for the girl. However he then returns to throw away his life in war because he is pissed off his best pal died, not because he pities the scores of Acheans being slain or wishes to see Troy sacked for the theft of Helen. At First he gets it wrong, then he gets it right when he aligns his interest with his people's.

Gilgamesh is going about taking his subjects brides to bang on their wedding nights, he needs a proper outlet for his male energy as he is a problem king at the start. He gets his pal Enkidu (maybe his bum chum, not sure about them, they might be a bit queer) and they go off and do useful stuff like kill giants but also they race the sun -just because you can if you are good enough.

The people conclude that they never had a king more hungry for glory than Beowulf. He did it for them and he did it for him.

A man must master himself and become the best master of his internal abilities that he can be. Then he must also be of value to his people if he wishes to have value. Even the D and D guy could make something of himself with a Utube channel teaching people how to be better players. He would soon get fantasy nerd chick to come and enchant his pole arm but the guy who works hard all his life and pays his wife's mortgage only to get divorce raped is not a hero, he is a loser. He took it to far in one direction, just like the guy who stayed in and played computer games all day while living on benefits did too.

Its OK to follow your inner self, so long as you don't follow it up your own arse. Men have to reclaim sovereignty of themselves -for better or worse. Its for them to choose how they spend their lives and society needs to accept that. Men then need to choose if they want glory or selfishness. That is their sovereign choice.

How men choose will depend if they get anything back from society for their efforts. The heroes of legend did not do it for duty or medals they did it for lands, for gold, to win captive hand maidens, for their companions and for undying glory. Society is going to need to come up with a better offer than "because you should"

@CainPrice Women have long held the moral power in western society and with that power they have made themselves the only legitimate object of men's love, loyalty, honour and tears.

If we go back to Homer this is not the same picture. The best examples are the relationships of the two main characters Achilles and Odysseus.

Homer has Achilles and Patroclus sharing the same bedroom but they each take a captive girl to bed in opposite corners. Because they are not homosexual, they can be very close while fitting into the bigger picture of society -they are not a couple with selfish aims, they are companions in life and war and that is a slightly different thing. They love each other to the point of Achilles being prepared to throwaway his pride (and the possibility of a long life) for the love of the now dead Patroclus. Their bones will be mixed in burial. The gay Achilles and Patroclus is a later innovation of classical Greece.

Odysseus knows his primary duty is to his son. With his companions all dead, he trusts his gods, his closest slaves (whose fortunes are bound to his) and his son only.

The women in Homer are anxious about their status -Penelope is crying herself to sleep not because she is in any danger at all but because she won't marry a suitor and move out because she is alpha widowed by Odysseus and won't trade down. Also she will lose her palace, so she stays put, even though it means the suitors are eating her son's wealth away and conspiring against his life. Telemachus and Odysseus both know how far they can trust Penelope -who is the best of women- and when she is best not included in plans. The women are happy to fake emotions -the maids outwardly weep for Patroclus but really they mourn for their own troubles. Helen sits and spins purple thread by Menelaus' side when she has been recovered but they have no more children. She is happy to be queen to the richest king among the Acheans but they evidently don't bang any more.

Homer does not expect his heroes to be held back by pain or much by injury but they are allowed fear -they run away when the odds are against them. They are also allowed to lie sometimes to protect the interests of them and their friends. They value their honour greatly and they do well when they are generous to each other. Shit happens sometimes -gods make you do dumb stuff and that must just be forgiven as its not your fault, just something that happens to you.

Society has come to value the female, so men must take on female emotions, fight to the end, never lie to women, include them in all their plans, be generous to their women but not necessarily the male friends they may come to depend on. They must always be accountable for their errors, never allow their honour to dictate a course of action, cry for women's troubles. These are not the expectations of Homer's men, who are not women's mules but the bronze age sovereign men the feminists love to hate.