Here's a long response I wrote on another forum in the thread about the war. The person I'm replying to has a long history of superficial Fox-driven political discourse- suck off the GOP, blame "The Libs" straight down the line, regardless of context.

"but I DO agree the nuclear war head of the Iranian snake needed to be removed and cut off as a threat."

What then of the fact that experts within Trump's own cabinet, to countries and nuclear agencies worldwide, stand unanimous that Iran didn't HAVE an active nuclear weapons program?

"Israel is undefeated when engaging in middle eastern conflicts."

Only because of massive military, economic, and social support ultimately funded by American taxpayers. Their unilateral attack upon Iran, unprovoked and upon a country that was not any sort of imminent threat, has not only initiated, but provided legal and moral justification for Iran to strike back hard militarily. They are doing exactly that, and Israelis are now feeling for themselves, what they used to take beach chairs to vantage points in order to watch the IDF committing upon Palestinians in a macabre gleeful party atmosphere.

This will result in the end of the Israeli state. Netanyahu has banned citizens from leaving, closing the ports and Ben Gurion Airport. Nonetheless, Israelis with the means to do so are voting with their feet and catching clandestine yacht rides away from the warmongering and genocidal state. The land will get drained of "Native Israelis" as they f##k off back to the places they came from to help themselves to Palestinian land and houses as the US backed IDF provided physical force backing. Back they will scurry to places like Poland, Eastern Europe, and New Jersey. Judaism itself got set back more than 100 years in the last three, as Israel squandered the sympathies heaped upon them after the horrors of the Holocaust, to perform THE EXACT SAME ATROCITIES upon a powerless and deliberately stigmatized group, the Palestinians. People the world over are now forced into the position of questioning the unconditional positive regard for Jews that has been enforced upon them, with the first and most obvious conclusion, that we have all gotten played for suckers. That will require generations for the reputation of not just Israelis, but Jews in general, to repair if such a thing is even possible.

"Sleeper cells of Muslim extremist sympathizers who illegally entered US border during the Biden years, smuggled Iranian surface to air missiles in the US, dirty suitcase bombs, and cyberattacks, are still in play for the next four years.

What right do we as Americans have to sleep peacefully without any fear of reprisals for the manipulation and subjugation of entire countries worth of people, for the gain of a few wealthy and powerful Americans? NONE!!! We've proven that the manipulations going back to the early 1950s in overthrowing the government of Iran who dared say that the resources below their sand belonged to their people, not Standard Oil and British Petroleum, and installing the brutal puppet government of the Shah, is not ancient history, but still happening today! We had the son of the Shah groomed to step in as the new puppet dictator of Iran, when the grand scheme of yet another regime change operation "succeeded." The reality now unfolding, is that though Iranians have issues with their current leadership, they are now united behind it in opposition to this disgraceful attempt to rule them.

People criticize Iranians chanting "Death to America!" as justification to continue subjugating that country, yet this collusion of Israel and America to attempt to overthrow their government, 100% vindicates and proves that they were right all along for chanting this. Be honest- if an outside country was fighting us, wouldn't YOU chant death to them in the streets? If yes, congratulations, you now see a reason to empathize with their sentiment. If you claim you wouldn't, you're either lying, or deeply corrupted with a slave morality.

"BTW I blame Lindsey Graham for this entire mess. He went to Israel without Trumps consent and promised Netanyahu that the US would help in the attack of Iran. Graham emboldened Netanyahu. Israel must have planned wargames, a few hundred times before doing this.

Goes to show how badly you fail to understand that Israel as a US proxy state isn't the product of one administration, but baked into the corrupt American political and capitalist-pig oligarch system. When it suits us, we glibly call Israel "our land based aircraft carrier in the Middle East." No amount of explaining or backpedaling can uncouple America from this in the world's view.

I've heard many Americans saying "Don't worry, Iran has no allies in this world. Such willful ignorance and profound blindness. In the past few days, Pakistan has announced that if a nuclear bomb is used by ANYONE on Iran, THEY will use at least one of their nuclear bombs on Israel. Russia has announced that they will assist Iran in defending their territory, militarily; interestingly, Iran turned down an offer of a Russian air defense system. China has also weighed in, that they stand on the side of Iran in this conflict.

We have just played ourselves, speed running the end of the era of American Hegemony. People who are cheering this attack and praising its cowardly and deceptive initiation, are going to get one hell of a comeuppance in the decades to follow. I truly wish there was some way for the negative consequences to fall entirely on their shoulders, and to miss those of us who they ruthlessly attacked for standing against this path the whole time through.

@MentORPHEUS

@TheRedPike

At the time most of the world agreed with the "righteous moral stature" of it.

Only those who took the Official Party Line at face value, and lacked the will to study the matter even a little bit. That time, the Administration and media mouthpieces were unanimous and insistent on the "fact" that "Saddam has WMDs.

You're conflating the first and second again.

The first was in 1991, and was purely to protect Saudi Arabia and then liberate Kuwait.

In fact, the first Pres Bush faced a lot of criticism from both sides of the aisle for not invading Iraq and taking Saddam out! However, we had no standing at the time to do that, and doing so would likely have turned our coalition against us.

That time, the Administration and media mouthpieces were unanimous and insistent on the "fact" that "Saddam has WMDs.

Sigh, time to go around that mountain again.

He more than likely had them, but those huge truck convoys going into Syria while our government spent months discussing and debating got rid of much of what he had.

Where do you think Al-Assad got the chemical weapons he used on Syrian rebels during the Arab Spring?

@MentORPHEUS

[whiny crap about how much area is affected]

Percentage of area affected isn't nearly as important as the significance of the target or targets.

Much like when the French Revolutionaries stormed the Bastille (which was just one building in a huge city), when these criminal invaders attacked government facilities to thwart law enforcement agents in their efforts to carry out lawful procedures, it was significant enough to warrant a response.

And no, I'm not saying these pieces of shit have the same moral standing as the French Revolutionaries at all, but just using the storming of the Bastille to illustrate that how large of an area affected is doesn't matter as much as the significance of what's hit.

primarily being conducted by criminal invaders who are breaking the law just by being here.

If that WAS true, I'd be for it also

It is true, so welcome to MAGA!

[emotional posturing along with baseless accusations of "othering" and racism

Show me where I've said anything of the kind.

You have your closed mind made up, that anyone who wants criminal invaders gone must just hate whatever ethnicity those invaders are. News flash: if someone sneaks in from Finland, I want him gone too.

@TheRedPike

At the time most of the world agreed with the "righteous moral stature" of it.

Only those who took the Official Party Line at face value, and lacked the will to study the matter even a little bit. That time, the Administration and media mouthpieces were unanimous and insistent on the "fact" that "Saddam has WMDs.

This time, numerous credible sources even within Trump's own inner circle are unanimously insisting "Iran abandoned its nuclear weapons program in 2002 and we have exactly zero evidence that they even want nuclear weapons, much less are actively working toward that goal." Without offering even a scintilla of evidence, Trump keeps brushing them off with "They don't know what they are talking about!!!

At some point, even diehard MAGA fans are going to find themselves having to claim they were against this war all along, and never actually liked much less believed Trump.