Open and uncensored tribe for talking about anything tech related. Being competent with technology has gone from giving you an edge in the recent past to being a necessity in many fields today. As a result there are a lot more people interested in the various tech-related hobbies, here we have a free space to discuss such things.
I was just researching battery technologies and came across info about the most popular battery in Chinese cars.
LFP battery chemistry was developed in the United States, but large-scale commercialization occurred mainly in China. John Goodenough’s research group at the University of Texas at Austin identified the foundational cathode material in 1996. Goodenough and Arumugam Manthiram published key papers in 1987 and 1989, and Goodenough filed a U.S. patent in 1997. Manthiram later noted that the intellectual work was done in the United States, not China.
Commercial development faced early obstacles. The UT Austin patent did not cover China, allowing Chinese firms access to the technology. A patent dispute between UT Austin and Hydro-Québec also slowed development and led to estimated losses of $350–500 million for the university and its Canadian licensee. By the time foundational patents expired around 2022, the United States had limited licensing leverage.
U.S. automakers initially prioritized maximum vehicle range. LFP’s lower energy density was seen as a disadvantage compared with nickel- and cobalt-based chemistries. Chinese firms took a different view, valuing LFP for cost, safety, and reduced dependence on imported nickel and cobalt. BYD began LFP research in 2002 and brought the first LFP-equipped car to market in 2008. CATL and BYD invested in carbon coatings, nanoscale material engineering, and cell-to-pack architectures to address LFP’s conductivity and density limitations.
A123 Systems became the most visible U.S. example. Spun out of MIT in 2001, it was the first company to commercialize LFP batteries. It received a $249 million federal grant in 2009, went public, and opened a Michigan factory. Sales did not meet expectations, and the factory opened before sufficient demand existed. Defective batteries contributed to a Fisker recall in 2012. A123 filed for bankruptcy in October 2012, and its assets were sold to China’s Wanxiang Group in 2013. The bankruptcy became politically contentious.
China now has a large share of global battery manufacturing. It controls over 85% of capacity, with about 2,831 GWh compared with 221 GWh in the United States. LFP accounts for nearly 81% of installed battery production in China. In the U.S., LFP’s share of EV batteries was below 10% as recently as 2024. Ford and Tesla now license LFP technology from CATL and BYD. Ford’s CEO has acknowledged that the company cannot commercialize LFP technology independently.
Several factors explain the U.S. outcome: patent disputes, a near-term focus on range, and difficulty sustaining investment in manufacturing scale-up. Bob Galyen, former CTO of CATL, said the U.S. approach needed recalibration. The LFP experience also offers lessons for sodium-ion, solid-state, and other emerging chemistries. Invention alone does not ensure commercial leadership without industrial policy, patient capital, and domestic manufacturing capacity.
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COMPARISON: 4C/5C ULTRA-FAST CHARGING LFP VS HIGH-NICKEL NMC VS SODIUM-ION (NA-ION)
TECHNICAL PARAMETERS COMPARISON
ENERGY DENSITY (CELL)
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: 150-210 Wh/kg
- High-Nickel NMC (e.g., NMC 811): 240-350 Wh/kg (current); up to 280 Wh/kg for CATL's Gen-3 Kirin
- Sodium-Ion: 100-175 Wh/kg (CATL Naxtra: 175 Wh/kg)
NOMINAL VOLTAGE
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: 3.2 V per cell
- High-Nickel NMC: 3.6-3.8 V per cell
- Sodium-Ion: approx. 3.1-3.2 V per cell
CYCLE LIFE (TO 80% CAPACITY)
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: 2,000-6,000+ cycles; CATL's 3rd-gen Shenxing retains >90% after 1,000 full cycles
- High-Nickel NMC: 1,500-3,000 cycles
- Sodium-Ion: 4,000-6,000 cycles (EV-grade); CATL's commercial Na-ion pack exceeds 10,000 cycles
FAST CHARGING CAPABILITY
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: 4C-15C peak; CATL 3rd-gen Shenxing: 10% to 80% in 3 min 44 s, 10% to 98% in 6 min 27 s
- High-Nickel NMC: 4C-5C achievable (e.g., SVOLT 800V 4C PHEV, Grepow NMC 532 at 5C)
- Sodium-Ion: 4C demonstrated (BAIC prototype: full charge in approx. 11 min)
COLD WEATHER PERFORMANCE (-30 C)
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: Degraded; LFP can lose approx. 50% capacity in extreme cold
- High-Nickel NMC: Usability ends below -20 C
- Sodium-Ion: Excellent; retains >90% capacity at -40 C; delivers approx. 3x the discharge power of LFP at -30 C
SAFETY / THERMAL RUNAWAY
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: Excellent; olivine structure is thermally stable
- High-Nickel NMC: Moderate; high-nickel chemistries exhibit more severe thermal runaway, reaching surface temps >1,000 C in abuse tests
- Sodium-Ion: Excellent; lower thermal runaway risk than NMC, with mild thermal runaway behavior reported in abuse tests
CELL COST (APPROX.)
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: $50-60/kWh (China cell price)
- High-Nickel NMC: >$100/kWh
- Sodium-Ion: Targeting $19-55/kWh at cell level with scale; currently higher than LFP at approx. $40-70/kWh
KEY MATERIAL CONSTRAINTS
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: No cobalt/nickel; iron and phosphorus abundant
- High-Nickel NMC: Dependent on nickel and cobalt supply
- Sodium-Ion: No lithium, nickel, or cobalt required; uses abundant sodium
CUSTOMER-FACING TRANSLATION
DRIVING RANGE (PER CHARGE)
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: Good. Suitable for mainstream EVs (approx. 400-600 km with current pack tech).
- High-Nickel NMC: Best. Enables 1,000 km+ range with large packs (e.g., CATL's 125 kWh NMC pack).
- Sodium-Ion: Adequate. Current mass-production EVs achieve 400-600 km; covers over 50% of market needs.
CHARGING SPEED
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: Game-changing. "Full tank" experience: 10% to 80% in under 4 minutes, 10% to 98% in approx. 6.5 minutes.
- High-Nickel NMC: Fast. 4C-5C charging available, but typically not as aggressively optimized for speed as latest LFP.
- Sodium-Ion: Fast. 4C charging demonstrated; full charge in approx. 11 minutes in prototype.
PURCHASE PRICE IMPACT
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: Lower. Cheapest lithium chemistry; translates to more affordable EVs.
- High-Nickel NMC: Highest. Nickel and cobalt drive up pack cost; premiums for long-range models.
- Sodium-Ion: Potentially lowest at scale. Targeting costs below LFP as manufacturing ramps up.
WINTER DRIVING EXPERIENCE
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: Poor. Noticeable range loss and reduced power in freezing conditions; requires battery heating.
- High-Nickel NMC: Poor. Usability severely limited below -20 C; range and charging suffer.
- Sodium-Ion: Excellent. Near-normal range and power even at -30 C to -40 C; effectively eliminates winter range anxiety.
SAFETY PERCEPTION
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: Very high. No thermal runaway at normal operating temperatures; inherently stable.
- High-Nickel NMC: Lower. High-nickel cells can be more volatile in abuse scenarios; requires advanced battery management system (BMS) and cooling.
- Sodium-Ion: Very high. Lower thermal runaway risk; designed to stay smoke- and fire-free even under crushing and drilling tests.
BATTERY LIFESPAN (YEARS OF USE)
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: Very long. Typically outlasts the vehicle; >10 years in many use cases.
- High-Nickel NMC: Shorter. Replacement may be needed within 5-8 years in intensive use.
- Sodium-Ion: Very long. 10,000+ cycles means potential lifespan far exceeding vehicle life.
BEST FOR...
- 4C/5C Ultra-Fast Charging LFP: Affordable EVs where fast charging and longevity matter most; mainstream family cars.
- High-Nickel NMC: Premium, long-range EVs where maximum range per charge is the priority.
- Sodium-Ion: Cold-climate regions, entry-level EVs, and applications where cost and safety are paramount.
BOTTOM LINE FOR A CAR BUYER If you want the fastest charging and lowest price with excellent safety, 4C/5C LFP is the pragmatic choice, just accept winter range penalties. If you need maximum range and can pay a premium, high-nickel NMC delivers. If you live in a cold climate and want a safe, affordable EV with minimal winter compromise, sodium-ion is emerging as a compelling new option.
Read MoreSo called autocorrect has gotten quite aggressive recently about outright changing what the fuck I just typed, and worse, changing it right back again after I correct its changes. I find myself repeatedly having to backspace up to the altered word, whereupon it offers my original typing as a correction that sticks, otherwise it will repeatedly change it back to its original substitution. Feels like the AI got put into a lazy training mode, that changes what you just typed to a different conjugation or outright different word from its internal dictionary, till you go through the effort of teaching it, that what you originally fucking typed is, in fact, correct.
@MentORPHEUS that 'let me see can I piss you off' function existed years back.
This is design choice. Sometimes, most often, can be changed in the settings: correct a word on space etc.
Sometimes you can change the whole keyboard app.
Side note there is (apparenly) private speech processing app. You put a big db on you mobile and when appropriate, no man sized fingers on small letters problem.
I want to say that it actually works. All this text is written exactly with the voice recognition whisper plus. I had it for ages but I have never used it.
Interesting thing I have learn about tattoos on the European women forehead.
Apparently it was to protect female children from being abducted/assimilated by Islam Ottomans, or at least to remind females the roots till the end of their days.
Apparently there still is some old women in some regions of Europe that have this tattoos
www.hungarianconservative.com/articles/current/croatia-eurovisions-ottoman-atrocities/
ideas being scraped and used to push out a similar product before he can.
There are very powerful free offline engines.
If required and one wants to use them trully offline but have 'some' semblence of updates from real world one still can do with more steps. Probably very easy if one can also code.
Investing 5k in a good gear will make you quite independent from commercial platforms. Hardest part to work with any ai to code e.g. a game, is to write a good design and logic and predict unpredictable.
Home AI can even help a plumber, especially one that is just starting.
For the most part, I have no use for AI since I am retired and never worked in an Industry that utilized it.
I do try to avoid thise AI chat bots tha t are the flavour of the day with some companies. I prefer a Human.
My Daughter's B/F is working on a video game and has conversations with Chat GPT about it, and I wonder if that will lead to his ideas being scraped and used to push out a similar product before he can.
I don't know about free ai
I'm very loyal to grok I think it's going to end up the best so I want to learn how to use it the best
I don't know about free
Look for local hosted ai (you run it on your computer and your gpu/cpu powers it if you want free stuff
Just be careful what you download
@Vermillion-Rx chinese one is web based and yes you have to be mindful about it, but if one is not looking to play Chinese tricks on it and is ready to run the code checks before running locally... It is good.
@Vermillion-Rx problem with china is that no one knows what is real, this is simply excellent advertisement of CHINA's manufacturing not necessarily the robot tec.
They likely wont sell it to anyone claiming military tech but will sell you shitty drill from aliexpress that is now having more and more comparable prices to other brands that are probably manufactured in China anyway, because corporations can also be charmed by unavailable military tech.
I'm seeing it in my own corpo, China swallows.
BTW. do you know which freeAI assistant is possibly the best? Chinese.Won't be advertising it here: government subsidized energy and probably smuggled NVIDIAS.

