@mattyanon

The problem with the tranny thing is that it's built on such a ridiculous lie (ie "trans women are women")

Again this is a minority viewpoint but by treating it as an active battle front we legitimize our own critics and justify special protected status. In the ensuing fog of battle, those who would use the tranny issue as a tool of division and control are further empowered.

Most of our critics and opponents derive their justification and power from the assumption that opposition and pushback against tranny/gay culture is born of hate and a desire to eliminate them like parasites. Suppose we made it a point to work from a position that gay and trans people have the same right to exist as ourselves, from say a Libertarian/self determination POV, yet with the same duties, responsibilities, and limitations as anyone else. This gives us a solid platform to stand upon, from which we can effectively address concerns like trying to "recruit" confused young people. This isn't unique to the trans subculture and as such does not require special techniques or methods in response, but behaving as if it is unique feeds into outsiders' impression that gets our opposition dismissed as specifically anti-tranny bigotry.

@MentORPHEUS

As for trannies demanding to be considered real women or that straight men must date trannies else bigoted; these aren't even the arguments being made by actual trannies or their bona-fide defenders not masking ulterior motives. The first claim is patently asinine, and the second is easily challenged on mutually agreed upon opposition to sexual coercion.

haha it's true... the trannies themselves are (for the most part), not making these stupid claims. A few are though.

I believe we (masculine heterosexual men) stand to upend this pattern with a little conscous effort at a paradigm shift, and take a more effective proactive approach to the topic.

True. I like to boil things down to simple facts that people can remember and agree with, and go from there. A lot of stupid arguments about women and relationships can be simply undermined by saying "men and women are different".

The problem with the tranny thing is that it's built on such a ridiculous lie (ie "trans women are women") that it's hard to undermine it without stating the opposite, which sadly doesn't work.

It's an Emporer's New Clothes thing: we are all supposed to ignore everything we know about humans and genetics and just agree that people's gender is 100% what they wish it to be.

@mattyanon

But if it isn't opposed then it gets written into law and into social norms

My claim is that a bad response is bringing about even worse outcomes than no response. As you pointed out, there already comes organic and successful pushback against some of the more visibly unjust consequences.

As for trannies demanding to be considered real women or that straight men must date trannies else bigoted; these aren't even the arguments being made by actual trannies or their bona-fide defenders not masking ulterior motives. The first claim is patently asinine, and the second is easily challenged on mutually agreed upon opposition to sexual coercion. These are not mainstream positions even among strongly left leaning generally gay friendly populations. Yet, this is the area we seem to focus our perception of tranny issues on and spend our time and energy arguing against.

The outcome of continuing to do this is to continue being ineffective at opposing the worthwhile concerns while confirming "the opposition's" biases about right leaning people. I believe we (masculine heterosexual men) stand to upend this pattern with a little conscous effort at a paradigm shift, and take a more effective proactive approach to the topic.

@MentORPHEUS

I'm curious when and where this even comes up in conversation, much less ends with a screamed pro trans position?

Examples: Ben Shapiro questionning if trans women are real women. JK Rowling suggesting that trans women are not real women. JK Rowling is getting slowly cancelled because of her views: men doing the same thing would have been already eliminated.

However, my big picture perspective is that it's not the crest of a wave of tranny takeover, but the short term extinction burst of a minor branch of homophobia. In a few years I think it will run its course then fade back to the obscurity of a niche subculture.

I think you're right, the tide is already turning. Sports bodies are trying to restrict trannies from competing against real women, public opinion seems to be "what the fucking fuck?"

In the meantime, making an oppositional big deal about the topic serves to reinforce the cultural significance of it and empower those SJWs and Machiavellian factions who would use it to manipulate the general population and public opinion

But if it isn't opposed then it gets written into law and into social norms.

@mattyanon

the second someone says "look, maybe trannies aren't real women" they are screamed down as bigots.

I'm curious when and where this even comes up in conversation, much less ends with a screamed pro trans position?

I second your observations about character presentation and find the whole topic mildly annoying. However, my big picture perspective is that it's not the crest of a wave of tranny takeover, but the short term extinction burst of a minor branch of homophobia. In a few years I think it will run its course then fade back to the obscurity of a niche subculture.

In the meantime, making an oppositional big deal about the topic serves to reinforce the cultural significance of it and empower those SJWs and Machiavellian factions who would use it to manipulate the general population and public opinion. Annoying SJW behavior THRIVES on attention and controversy. It seems an obvious social Judo response to disempower them by ignoring and not giving a shit, thus bringing about the post-flash Era when it becomes passe to even invoke the topic.

@redpillschool "Why the fuck do they have to do this to every show?"...

It's even worse than this.... not only is there a tranny, but the tranny is presented in a 100% positive light while the other characters are shown as wrong-bigots or correctly-open-minded about it.

I don't believe it's all a conspiracy...... But I do believe it's sort of societal virus. The insane-left leverage people's inherent fairness, the virtue-signallers build on it and coerce others into agreeing, and then everyone else is forced to go along with something that defies nature, science, reason and logic.

You can sit down and have a reasonable discussion about "is there a god" or "does democracy work" or maybe even "should I buy Apple", but the second someone says "look, maybe trannies aren't real women" they are screamed down as bigots.

The result is a form of collective societal hysteria/insanity......... well, I've gone off on a bit of a tangent here, but I think I've answered your rhetorical question :)

@Eurm

I still feel she is brainwashed and doesn't believe what I say because she believes that feminism is “all human rights” or only based on woman's rights in poor countries.

Standard feminist rhetoric.... "it's all about equality" followed by trying to promote female rights at the expense of men. Feminists want to level the playing field only where women do less well than men (regardless of whose fault that is). They change the subject fast when you talk about male equality in areas where we don't do as well as women.

She's WILLINGLY brainwashed. She believes in feminism because it seems to benefit HER. (This is true of most people's political beliefs).

Could you help me with this topic and what to say?

Agree with her wholeheartedly, and tell her it's her turn to buy dinner. Her turn to sign up for the draft. Her turn to ask you out on dates. Then talk about what you're going to do to help disadvantaged men in your community.

Basically agree with her "equality" lie wholeheartedly, embrace it, and make her live it. "No honey, you're a feminist, you get to choose where to go for dinner".

Here's my question though: why the fuck are you dating a feminist?