@Bozza

I will also add something most people will never mention

Most of these guys instinctively know that this stuff works because other guys do it and they see that but they:

1) think there is some secret sauce that makes it work for other guys and would never personally work for them (too "ugly", too xyz, etc. excuse (s)).
2) they are terrified shitless that it will actually work

There is nothing more terrifying to the low value guy then something he has never tried actually working. Because outside of his conscious awareness if he tries and succeeds with something new - especially if it was spoonfed to him - then he will have will be plunged into the unknown on what to do next. They are so terminally unconfident that when they actually make it to step two they have no idea what to do. And if they succeed they have to keep succeeding. They have to maintain the girl

They are scared fucking shitless of victory because they are existentially terrified of bungling an actual victory after they win.

You just simply cannot help men like that. They would rather play to not lose and let the girl lead because it is forever safe than playing to win which means they have to keep winning

@Bozza

It is your own ego. I've done the same thing. You assume because you swallowed the red pill and it's logical and that you have experience and results that other men who respect you will take it at face value because you have or are "proof".

how do [they] see that path?

They don't man. Most of these guys if you ask them deep enough questions are actually somewhat suicidal deep down even if not actively and it's an old dormant part of them. Their literal existence is predicated on getting a girlfriend and being validated. They don't respond to logic because their literal existence and ego is about women.

The fastest sign I've seen that you are dealing with one of these men is you give extremely straightforward red pill advice (even a sentence worth) and they don't apply it.

You: "Hey man do xyz with this girl"

Him: "okay I will"

Him: doesn't do it, makes excuses, tells "but but but" as to why he won't do it, says "I just can't cause what if she blah blah blah"

I've wasted far too much time on these guys just realize that they don't even have the capacity to experiment on even one girl they don't care that much about. They are so invested in their validation script that they will not just go try your simple cookie cutter advice on even one girl they are lukewarm interested in because it might not work. Having even just one barely room temperature body in front of them is still too much scarcity to test a red pill game set on

They pretend they are listening but they are fighting you every step of the way. I see these guys on coaching online and I see them when I go to dance venues even. I'll tell a guy exactly what to do, we go serge two girls and I even ask him which one he wants and pick the one I don't give a fuck about.

The chick I went with will almost always keep trying to stay on me and then I see the girl walk off the floor away from the dude I serged with almost without fail.

It's not like he didn't like the chick or something, i basically ask these guys who they want to approach, they don't even fucking pick a girl half the time so I have to pick the pairs of girls. And they still can't get through a 6 minute set (two songs).

I once had two very bangable girls isolated with us once and this fucking guy starts learning a movie with a platonic married chick friend and our group and even she had to tell him like 5 times to focus on the girls I brought over. They were interested and very cute and he couldn't fucking do it. I was having to juggle both of them and then they bailed.

Another guy I once asked him who he wanted and he picked one and said "oh man the things I'd do to her" and then he didn't last one song. I still had my chick on me (again they were both quite attractive) and he bungled it and then knocked up and engaged single mom who already had 5 kids and lived in a trailer park).

My biggest advice to you is that if me you have under your wing cannot even get through one single interaction taking your advice -to such a degree that they can't even YOLO it one single time and just simply blame you for an ineffective strategy even one time following what you said, just give up

I know it's tempting to red Knight and save every man but after years of helping men on here and trying to in real life, there is just a subset of men who should have never found the red pill or even anything manosphere. So men are so lost and so dependent on women they will not even try basic advice to the contrary of their deeply held ego.

Some men really should just be left alone to be blue pill as hell and take mediocre women with lukewarm interest on a few dinner dates before they even get to see a tit, while they work their 9-5 and be part of the system. We can't all be Cads and Chads anyway, society wouldn't function

If they can't even leave a couple interactions to destiny without feeling like they their world is gonna fall apart my advice would be to not help them unless or until they are actually ready.

There is no worse disservice you can do to your fellow man than to try to unplug him from his fantasy and leave him in purgatory where he is stuck between surefire blue pill methods of getting duty sex and red pill basics he can never achieve with his own devices on even the most basic of game and red pill.

All it does is leave hopelessly blue pill men in an awkward purgatory where they have blue pill goals and red pill anger. They are so much worse off than happy wife happy life betas. The red pill is not for everyone so don't project your red pill success onto their blue pill convictions