@deeplydisturbed Do you think there is a formula? I know there are a lot of formulae out there but soon enough everyone else has them and the bots are happily using them all over. I don't think formulae work well in market re-sets. A market re-set comes when hope, enthusiasm and greed have over run. Then communal fear snaps the market back. The big falls are usually emotional. People suddenly realise value has been exceeded by price and they bail out. The formulae that made the market rise suddenly don't work as people trade on fear not reason.

Guys who short falling markets trade on and add to the fear. I think they are actually reading emotion as well as value. They usually love to boast how they bought it all back cheap next week. They didn't actually think the stock was worthless, they just used the fear to put frightened people's money into their pockets.

I am sure there are ways people check for a strong down trend and check it is because of over valuing to start but then I think you have to go with "feels" (other people's). A lot of people having a justified fear at the same time usually produces hysteria -an irrational and over blown fear.

A very simple method of using other people's rational fear (and yes its too simple for the big guys but it still does work) is to think "where have most people set their stop losses?" People like round numbers. It depends on the stock or commodity but (talking about something I used to know about) gold is usually set by a lot of people at crossing the 200 day moving average. When the falling price breaches that lagging line there will suddenly be a heap of automatic sales. A wise man takes out a short contract when a strong trend approaches that line.

@deeplydisturbed it is true I didn't give any direct answer. I assumed that with all likelihood you already know the answer.

There is no reliable way to say are the people that claim to be so goooood [so called grifters] aren't just pile of shit-talkers.

In your list you have missed

• market manipulation with huge pile of money - prominently didn't work in case of GameStop

• providing some information that is false, the opposite from the insider

The main "fake news" about free insulin involves a viral 2022 fake tweet from an impersonator of pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly, falsely announcing insulin was free, causing stock drops and confusion;

One I use is learning the stock. I have chosen speculation stock because you need some sharp drops and rises on company that is legit.

There was this dude that APPARENTLY have leant to use QQQ stock and made his fortine on it.

One of the strategies would be to have hacker insider and know when they.him attack several platforms - real important accounts- with fake news to load the shares right after the drop.

@deeplydisturbed presumably its highly leveraged and that is where you get the huge percentage returns. Spot a strong down trend backed by market fundamentals early and buy highly leveraged contracts to short the market. This works very well in commodities and would work with options in stocks but is very dangerous if you mess up on the trend.

If you get it right it is a self feeding effect all the way down. The bigger you are the better the self feeding effect as people crap themselves with your short sales. JP Morgan in silver is a great example of how to do it over the years. All the small investors pay for JP Morgan's occasional pay day. Right now I think anyone buying silver is going to do this. (I sold half my holding the other day which means what is left is paid for out of profits from the half sold. I won't buy till they have rinsed the market again but I still hope to sell the other half for more, if not its still free silver).

@deeplydisturbed

which s&p stock rose the most from the Nov 2019

-Nvidia (NVDA): Rose approximately 15.8x (a ~1,480% increase). In November 2019, Nvidia's split-adjusted price was roughly $12.10. By January 2026, the stock reached approximately $191.10.

-Tesla (TSLA): Rose approximately 15.4x (a ~1,440% increase). Tesla traded at a split-adjusted price of about $28.00 in November 2019 and stands at roughly $432.96 in early 2026. While Tesla led the index in 2020 with a record 743% gain, Nvidia’s consistent growth since 2023 has allowed it to narrow and eventually overtake Tesla's total multiple gain.

-Super Micro Computer (SMCI): While it only joined the S&P 500 in March 2024, its growth since 2019 has been even more extreme, rising over 1,400% in the five years leading into late 2025.

Was it luck, analysis or plenty of automated microtransactions and taking suckers for a ride. I have one speculation stock. It has wild rides. If I would trade it more carefully I would get out of it 500% in the last 2 y easily

@First-light

I am not sure what usury is in this context. In this case, I took it to be "unfair as opposed to fair trade in currency" If they wanted the official money, they had to pay for a incorrectly weighed measure of silver (not the true shekel weight) with a fair measure (which in those days the denarius was, it was only later that we got rampant Roman seignurage).

To take more than a fair share is greedy, is that the connection you mean?

I have often thought that unfairness is not a deadly sin and why not? To me the problem with the money changers was their unfairness to other men as opposed to their desire for money itself.

I think the answer lies in the 7 deadly sins being really about doing illicit and inappropriate things -things beyond the covenants of Yahweh- with the good things that Yahweh has provided for men. To greatly "lust" after sex with your new wife is not the sin of lust at all (unless at certain points in the church's history it was during a fast) its actually god's will that you want to mate with her and procreate. However to desire sex with the hot girl next door is illicit and no matter how much she would like it too and even if you use no birth control, its a sin. To relax on the sabbath is good. To relax when you should be working is sloth. To enjoy the fruit of your labour at the table is a good thing, to eat far more than you need in wasteful way is gluttony. To be angry at the burning of a church by infidels is virtue, to rage at your neighbour's bonfire is wrath and so on.

The 7 deadly sins are really all the same thing -the incorrect or excessive application of desire that can be good in the right place and time. This is not so much about fairness. Unfairness instead goes against the concept of treating your neighbour as yourself, which is half of the law.