@Typo-MAGAshiv Waller, that was it. Yeah he came across much better than the others. He was defensive about letting Theroux closer into his personal life, and once he did everyone I watched the documentary with (not red pilled) agreed him and his wife were both quite happy with their lives.

I don’t know much about Waller at all, really, but I picked up on his insecurity being the bravado that he sells to young me is undermined by the genuine love he has for his family (it isn’t, but he seemed to think so initially).

But this is why I’m separating the red pill from the “manosphere” - the names you mention that Theroux failed to interview aren’t the snake oil sellers, and so not the subject being investigated. I mean I can see I’m splitting hairs in a manner, but I went into the documentary prepared to go on the defensive against Theroux, assuming he was going to lump in the respectable names by way of taking on the easy targets. To my mind, he didn’t do so.

@Stigma

the other guy

You mean Justin Waller? Among him, Myron, and Sneako (who isn't even RP at all, but just a loud and confused retard who somehow blundered his way into internet fame), Justin's the only one I wouldn't think of as remotely insecure. As for HS Ticky Tocky, I never heard of him before all this, but he strikes me as yet another blowhard in the vein of Tater Tot and Moron Gaynes. However, his pwnage over Piers Morgan was pretty sweet (more on this later).

Anyway, if that faggot-ass Theroux dude made Justin Waller look insecure, it had to be through selective editing.

Fuck, from what I heard about the "documentary", he was trying to portray Justin's wife (her name escapes me at the moment) look like a helpless victim. As if! She's all in favor of his fucking other women, and she sometimes joins in because she's bi.

But of course Theroux left all that out. He had an agenda to push.

Which is why he a) stuck to YouTube instead of the real Red Pill, and b) he chose the biggest blowhards and those be perceived as easy targets. He never contacted Rollo, or Rian Stone, or Rich Cooper (not that he's all that great, but he'd have made Theroux look retarded), or Aaron Clarey, or any number of other YouTubers who aren't total retards

Additionally, there was another guy he (Theroux) flew all the way to California to interview, and he ended up using none of the footage. The young man (can't remember his name, Logan something) held frame quite well and made Theroux look stupid, and the men and women at his seminar had nothing but good things to say about him. Can't push an agenda with that!

Rollo Tomassi and Mike Sartain interviewed that young man about this. I'll try to dig the link back up later if I remember.

@Typo-MAGAshiv Sounds like Theroux came from hislibtard bosses with a conclusion pre formed. He used to make good TV. He tried to get to the bottom of what people were like. He wins their confidence and then the truth just falls into his hands when he pauses in conversation.

In fact his Jimmy Saville documentaries were a good example, for all the attacking him for them in this one. Saville was a freak and a paedo but he was also adored by the British establishment as a great charity worker and was a knight of the realm. Louis gets close to him and while he doesn't quite show him up as a paedo Saville practically gives it away himself and he does show him up as a total weirdo who is manipulative. He only succeeds because he actually hangs out with Saville and wins his confidence.

Sometimes the freaks come out of Louis' documentaries on top -they explain themselves rationally and you see its the truth because he has got close to them and the truth has just fallen out.

He just came in to do a hatchet job on the manosphere, found some big easy targets and took them down. It wasn't a good job.

@First-light I watched the documentary and the starkest takeaway from it happened to be how insecure Sneako, Myron, HS and the other guy all were.

Doesn’t help that Louis has the most unflappable personality going, he’ll ask a question and let it hang for eternity waiting for the answer. The fact they raced to fill his silence and their defensive answers was just embarrassing.

But, I would argue that what Theroux investigated was the colloquial manosphere as talked about in the mainstream. The guys selling all of this, the pyramid schemes etc. Louis was shaking the foundations of their business, which just so happens to be this facade of an unshakeable ego. Double kill.

Now if he had of investigated the red pill, he might have found the note sharing, thought provoking, quiet red pill that men come and go from.

I don’t see that we should share any sympathy for the targets of this Theroux documentary not least because they aren’t representative of the wider TRP knowledge base or actionable advice, but because they’re chancers and grifters getting rich off the insecurity they claim to solve.

Fuck ‘um

@Stigma Great post there. I agree fully with you there.

It was their insecurity that undid them. They should have been straight over the issue of the one sided monogamy (which was really a side issue from their being knob head grifters selling a fake vision of uber alphaness).

"Look I offer a lot. This is something I ask in return. Girls have a free choice when they get with me. I don't lie to them (Which is for a start better than many men and women offer their lovers). Its not like you like everything about your wife Louis. Some things she does and likes don't suit you but she offers what she offers and you took the deal both for better and worse when you accepted her. There is no such thing as any one's ideal spouse but these girls accepted us on these terms. They accepted the pluses and the minuses we bring. I accept that she snores/ can't bake/ has an annoying mother/ has a chavvy dress sense, asks X or Y from me or whatever. These were not deal breakers for me and this was not a deal breaker for her. If it is, she will leave and I will consider whether it was worth it to me or not. Its a big world, Louis, full of consenting adults making choices."

Instead to keep up their fake vision of being so alpha that girls just agreed to and wanted everything they wanted; they said "she wants whatever I want" Muppets! We all want what we want. We agree to live in a position where we are happy with the sum of the pluses and minuses. That's adult life. The red pill suggests, among other things, that men dare to ask for what they want from life not to follow gynocentric scripts.

How to balance being the alpha and being authentic? In my journey the red pill main thing for me was finding my internal validation - first not being ashamed of wanting the sex second finding general internal validation instead of trying put myself in standarts defined by others. I understand that natural selection play to the benefit of alpha, but lately I try to search for my own validation more, i did boxing and military training got jacked, did some other things which were basically for my own independence in order to feel okay without female aproval which is most important thing for me as my agency and freedom goes. Lately I feel that being honest instead of putting game is less rewarding but feels more okay to me - like handling shit tests, I know the theory, but just I don't want to pretend to be someone i'm not in order to jump through hoops. Anyone had same thoughts? Is redpill more about internal locus of control or PUA stuff, I guess its both.

@lurkerhasarisen Here is an interesting one. Are we saying that loyalty and care for those under you are beta traits?

Alcibiades had all of the alpha traits but he was very self interested. Dragging his wife out of court when she tried to divorce him amuses the school boy in me but it also suggests a lack of ability to resolve things sensibly. If he was really all that good at being alpha and making women submissive why did she take him to court in the first place to divorce him for his whoring?

If we are taking what I call the "fake alpha stance" some manosphere "teachers" are promoting, shouldn't she, in a state where women had almost no legal rights and there was no femtardation, have said "whatever makes you happy Chad, can I join a threesome, I find the idea of you doing other girls makes me so hot?" He failed in leadership there. His actions provoked mutiny. He just lived in an age where you could get away with it if you were an influential guy.

Alcibiades was essentially selfish. Being uber Chad maybe never gave him much need to think of others but he was a charming traitor in the end. And that's what got him killed. I mean seriously, who defects to Sparta and thanks them for accepting him by shagging the queen? He came up short in the end. He possessed all the gifts of manliness except self control. He just thought too much of himself and not enough of others.

I would like to suggest that what he lacked in self control and empathy was where he fell short of having the whole apha deck. I would like to suggest that empathy and self control are not beta traits unless used by a beta mind.

Low ranking men learn to control themselves better than many high raking men because they are forced to. Low ranking men often have to be thoughtful of others because they lack power but that does not actually make those characteristics weak, its just that low ranking men are in a weak position to start. Its just like saying women are not all sweet and kind. In fact plain women tend to be sweeter and kinder than hot women because they have less options.

Low ranking men often look with jealousy at high ranking men and think "I wish I could be a selfish dick too, that would be so high status (alpha)" What they are not seeing is that they are looking at failure not success when they see these things. A good leader does not unnecessarily injure his subjects. There are times when one has to act against the interests of subjects but these times are when you are forced by circumstance or by a greater opportunity for a greater number.

Being kind and self controlled are part of being a successful high status man. I wouddl argue that when done well they are Alpha traits, just as dominance needs to be done well or its only aggression. A low status dog will cower under a table and bite you from fear. That is badly used aggression. Its not alpha its gamma or delta behaviour. Similarly a low status man against whom you have the upper hand verbally and legally may punch you because that is all he has left. It may landing in jail but he is desperate. In fact come to think of it most domestic violence against women is done by low to mid ranking, whom the women are forcing or humiliating. Its not that the guy is so alpha that he is a danger to women, it because he is not alpha enough to ignore her, roll over and go to sleep.

@lurkerhasarisen My concern over the contextuality of Alphaness is that this truth has been abused by a lot of manosphere content makers for personal gain.

There is a feeling among quite a few men, perhaps younger, perhaps newer to the manosphere that they can put on "Alphaness" like a set of clothes.

They have been sold this idea by some manosphere authors and content producers. Learn the behaviours, carefully control the context and you can control the narrative and so assume alpha status and get everyone submitting to you. Its a very potent lie as it taps into the innermost wishes of someone with low status male behaviour, someone who feels he has submitted more than he would like.

You can't put on those traits like clothes. If you disguise yourself as such, you will very soon be discovered once the context gets out of your control. Think of all those young men we get bewailing letting their "frame slip" on a date and so they behaved in a "beta" way. In fact they usually just behaved true to themselves. If they hadn't given away their weakness in the way they bewail, they would have in another soon enough.

These things are contextual but you have to also make the traits that give you status in given contexts internal and therefore to a degree innate before you can really be that man in any context beyond acting.

I just wish we could get a healthier consensus on the whole subject to avoid the self improvement that we preach being confused with an "alpha delusion/ fantasy" that we are often misunderstood to be promoting as a solution to men.