Dedicated to exposing all the women who complain about wanting a "good man", to show women's poor dating behavior and unreasonable standards while offering little to no value themselves.
@woodsmoke Late as usual to the convo. You are right on the money. Posts like these are good enough for a conversation in the tribes, but they cannot be permitted in the forums because they do not fit the theme and are going to be bad optics even if it is carefully presented. Discussions are fine, showcasing them is not.
As you know, I am much more open to "adjacent" content than most. As long as it highlights some key aspect of the WAATGM phenomenon, I'm good with it.
But this one should not be published because of the reasons previously mentioned:
- Bad optics
- Not her fault
- No obvious CC riding
- No obvious bad attitude
- etc.
BUT... it does have value as it does reinforce or hint at a few of our favorite topics/flairs, including:
- The epiphany phase
- Hitting the wall (perhaps literally in this case. Sorry that was horrible. Ill delete this line later.)
- Leftovers(ish)
- Looking for a "good character guy" (as she put it) - now that her other options are gone
It's a great story, if true. But I vote no. We can allude to this story as needed in the future. So it can serve a purpose. I would just not let it fly for all the aforementioned reasons.
Still one hell of a compelling story.
Important Note:
This discussion brings up our ongoing moderation challenge here; Censorship.
Over the years, I have yanked many a post on /r/waatgm and a few other subs that I modded, for the optics alone - even when everything else fit. And I think we should all be mindful of straddling that fine line between being open in our speech on one hand, and opening ourselves up to claims of racism, ableism, etc.
Instead of looking at it as censorship, we do something more akin to self- policing. Is this a subtle semantic difference? Sure. But we all get what that means.
CC: @deeplydisturbed, @houseoftolstoy, @Impressive-Cricket-8, @Land_of_the_losers, @lurkerhasarisen, @moorekom, @MelkorHimself, @ogrilla99, @woodsmoke
Read MoreRight, having now properly read the thing, my first thought is this is a better fit for discussion on the tribe than the forum, on account of it doesn't fit the rules for posting in the latter.
That said, if the other mods think it'll make for good discussion over there provided we specify the purpose of the post, that works for me.
From the Wiki article on Norah's life/death en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norah_Vincent
In Voluntary Madness, Vincent details her decade-long history with treatment-resistant depression, saying: "...my brain was never quite the same after I zapped it with that first course of SSRIs."[12] Due to her experience as a man during the making of Self-Made Man she ultimately had a depressive breakdown, leading Vincent to admit herself to a locked psychiatric facility, stating it was the high price she paid for "the burden of deception" of a separate identity and for trying to hold two gender identities in her mind.[13][14]
Vincent died via assisted suicide at a clinic in Switzerland on July 6, 2022, aged 53. Her death was not reported until August 2022.[3]
It also reminds me of the trans-man who wrote the book "self-made man" who committed suicide after realizing how difficult men's lives are.
like @throwaway_old_guy said: that was Norah Vincent, and she wasn't a tranny. She just pretended to be a man for her research. Here's my WATGMA post about her from a bit over a year ago.
And like @woodsmoke said (with a slight correction): her medically assisted suicide was almost 20 years after her book was published (researched 2003-2004 and published 2006, death was 2022). She struggled with depression most of her adult life.
Michael Landon had a series: "Highway to Heaven"
I'm familiar with it. My wife loves it, but it's too hokey for me. I've seen a few episodes I enjoyed, but I'm not really a fan. I don't recall the episode you mentioned.
I was thinking that she's going through an existential crisis similar to that the leftovers go through, except more extreme. Instead of happening over a decade, now it's sudden.
Now this does make for some interesting fodder.
I'm a lot more open to it now, as long as we make it clear that her sudden invisibility is the focus, rather than making fun of her for an unfortunate accident.
CC: @deeplydisturbed, @houseoftolstoy, @Impressive-Cricket-8, @Land_of_the_losers, @lurkerhasarisen, @moorekom, @MelkorHimself, @ogrilla99, @woodsmoke (I think that's all the mods I've seen active somewhat recently)
Read MoreAlso, the suicide happened over 20 years after the events described in the book. As far as I'm aware she didn't elucidate on her reasons for choosing to end her life before doing so, so any claims to causality with respect thereunto are pure conjecture.
Haven't actually read the OP yet; hopefully I'll have time to check it out tomorrow and see if my weighing in is at all necessary.
It also reminds me of the trans-man who wrote the book "self-made man" who committed suicide after realizing how difficult men's lives are.
[That would be Norah Vincent (Lesbian not Transgender)](en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-MadeMan(book)
@Typo-MAGAshiv Here's what I'm thinking about: Michael Landon had a series: "Highway to Heaven" where in an episode a promising high school jock was paralyzed and suicidal and he tried to mentor him into doing something else with his life and, as an angel, tried to pull an FDR with him and encouraged the guy to date the plain-looking-but-sweet girl (like Eleanor) and perhaps do something else with his life. I think it was a nice, family show for the time.
I was thinking that she's going through an existential crisis similar to that the leftovers go through, except more extreme. Instead of happening over a decade, now it's sudden.
It's also interesting how she's experiencing life like men do with people ignoring her and not opening doors and even being rude. She's seeing the underbelly of society in an even more radical fashion than a 40 year old woman who loses her looks gradually.
It makes me think about how it's important to remind my daughter of her own life and to not take things for granted. I don't know how to write this better just now, but it's an interesting scenario.
It also reminds me of the trans-man who wrote the book "self-made man" who committed suicide after realizing how difficult men's lives are.
One thing I think helped with my foreign born wife was that she was a country as well as city girl. She worked on a farm and did actual chores and cared for older family members and was "grounded" in reality. Some of that got washed away after moving to the states particularly in how naive she can be now. Back 30 years ago, she was a lot more street smart.
When women "travel", they mean going on the CC and hitting restaurants and museums but when I traveled, I always stayed with friends and learned about the culture and even humbled myself having my paradigms challenged. It took me a few days to figure out how to flush a toilet.
Read MoreThe only reason I didn’t immediately put the kabosh on this one is that her condition is probably temporary. If this was a permanent condition then it would be out of bounds.
As it is, it seems that her trip from “hot girl” to “former hot girl” is unusual only in its abruptness.
Obviously it wouldn’t be fair to blame her loss of attractiveness on her choices, but as long as it’s unfortunate (short term) rather than tragic (permanent), her story is HIGHLY instructive. After all, rather than losing her mojo gradually with lots of time to adjust to each stage of her “new normal,” she went from being an object of desire to being invisible literally overnight.
@polishknight I lean heavily towards no, but I'm open to reading it provided that you make it very clear we aren't roasting her for something she couldn't help
Our normal fodder are suffering the consequences of their bad decisions. This one isn't responsible for her fate.