@Lionsmane8

i tend to avoid looking at these classifications and just stick to a very basic dichotomy: does this make me more of a Chad or more of a Brad (of course it's a spectrum).

But you are right about the narrative. I think in the TRP community we don't give enough attention to the other aspects outside of intersexual dynamics.

There is a red pill and a blue pill for almost everything in life, and they overlap.

You won't be purple pilled forever. Eventually, you're going to have to make the choice between the blue pill and the red.

However, the problem in the context of this exchange is that liars lie, it's what they do, and sadly how they prefer to effect their survival. Fantasy and lies are the chief trade and craft of the industrialized media intelligentsia. The challenge for most people is in not falling for those lies. Unfortunately, the media machine prefers to focus on the most vulnerable segments of the population, that being women, children, and the mentally feeble.

@mattyanon

The problem with the tranny thing is that it's built on such a ridiculous lie (ie "trans women are women")

Again this is a minority viewpoint but by treating it as an active battle front we legitimize our own critics and justify special protected status. In the ensuing fog of battle, those who would use the tranny issue as a tool of division and control are further empowered.

Most of our critics and opponents derive their justification and power from the assumption that opposition and pushback against tranny/gay culture is born of hate and a desire to eliminate them like parasites. Suppose we made it a point to work from a position that gay and trans people have the same right to exist as ourselves, from say a Libertarian/self determination POV, yet with the same duties, responsibilities, and limitations as anyone else. This gives us a solid platform to stand upon, from which we can effectively address concerns like trying to "recruit" confused young people. This isn't unique to the trans subculture and as such does not require special techniques or methods in response, but behaving as if it is unique feeds into outsiders' impression that gets our opposition dismissed as specifically anti-tranny bigotry.

@MentORPHEUS

As for trannies demanding to be considered real women or that straight men must date trannies else bigoted; these aren't even the arguments being made by actual trannies or their bona-fide defenders not masking ulterior motives. The first claim is patently asinine, and the second is easily challenged on mutually agreed upon opposition to sexual coercion.

haha it's true... the trannies themselves are (for the most part), not making these stupid claims. A few are though.

I believe we (masculine heterosexual men) stand to upend this pattern with a little conscous effort at a paradigm shift, and take a more effective proactive approach to the topic.

True. I like to boil things down to simple facts that people can remember and agree with, and go from there. A lot of stupid arguments about women and relationships can be simply undermined by saying "men and women are different".

The problem with the tranny thing is that it's built on such a ridiculous lie (ie "trans women are women") that it's hard to undermine it without stating the opposite, which sadly doesn't work.

It's an Emporer's New Clothes thing: we are all supposed to ignore everything we know about humans and genetics and just agree that people's gender is 100% what they wish it to be.

@mattyanon

But if it isn't opposed then it gets written into law and into social norms

My claim is that a bad response is bringing about even worse outcomes than no response. As you pointed out, there already comes organic and successful pushback against some of the more visibly unjust consequences.

As for trannies demanding to be considered real women or that straight men must date trannies else bigoted; these aren't even the arguments being made by actual trannies or their bona-fide defenders not masking ulterior motives. The first claim is patently asinine, and the second is easily challenged on mutually agreed upon opposition to sexual coercion. These are not mainstream positions even among strongly left leaning generally gay friendly populations. Yet, this is the area we seem to focus our perception of tranny issues on and spend our time and energy arguing against.

The outcome of continuing to do this is to continue being ineffective at opposing the worthwhile concerns while confirming "the opposition's" biases about right leaning people. I believe we (masculine heterosexual men) stand to upend this pattern with a little conscous effort at a paradigm shift, and take a more effective proactive approach to the topic.

@MentORPHEUS

I'm curious when and where this even comes up in conversation, much less ends with a screamed pro trans position?

Examples: Ben Shapiro questionning if trans women are real women. JK Rowling suggesting that trans women are not real women. JK Rowling is getting slowly cancelled because of her views: men doing the same thing would have been already eliminated.

However, my big picture perspective is that it's not the crest of a wave of tranny takeover, but the short term extinction burst of a minor branch of homophobia. In a few years I think it will run its course then fade back to the obscurity of a niche subculture.

I think you're right, the tide is already turning. Sports bodies are trying to restrict trannies from competing against real women, public opinion seems to be "what the fucking fuck?"

In the meantime, making an oppositional big deal about the topic serves to reinforce the cultural significance of it and empower those SJWs and Machiavellian factions who would use it to manipulate the general population and public opinion

But if it isn't opposed then it gets written into law and into social norms.

@Typo-MAGAshiv @TwoInchesOfShaft

A. I think this happens mostly on right wing outrage porn peddling channels than in real life, and every instance of this is a blue pill beneath the right flavored candy coating. By playing into it we let the opposition set the terms and we confirm and play in to the Marxist conflict theory underlying the wackiest yet most influential and Dangerous Left positions.

B. The analogies are getting off into the weeds here. Just as Judo isn't passively hoping your attacker will just stop and go away, the response I'm suggesting is not grabbing the outrage porn and thus losing by accepting the enemy's terms, but formulating a response that reflects OUR values and addresses our concerns effectively without invoking the defense mechanisms of those we seek to reach and influence.

This ties in to what I've been talking about wrt better responses to left wing propaganda, and also the phenomenon of "getting fired for being conservative. "

So again I ask where and when this even comes up in conversation? Because if it doesn't this is all a BP waste of time, but if it does then context absolutely does matter toward responding effectively.