@sirGreen

Question about Kino escalation in bars

Hey, newbie here. I recently went on a date in a bar with a girl I met recently. Anything went pretty well for the first part.

When I started with kino, I started slowly; some taps on her shoulder to make a point, holding her hand over her phone when she was showing me some photos in her gallery, other taps on her thigh, our legs were touching all the time, etc.

To all of them, she responded neutrally, no particular reaction, just letting me do that. In my mind, when dealing with women, any obvious stop or hold back is a green light, so I escalated. I touched her thigh with my hand and rubbed my thumb on it a little. (I think doing this is pretty normal sexual escalation imo) She said "don't do that" and she instantly took my hand away from her.

This was pretty surprising to me because our legs were still touching. So I thought that this particular gesture was the problem. I didn't know how to interpret this 'rejection'. I have 2 explanations in mind:

1. She was either not DTF or looking for a boyfriend type and wanted to take things more slowly. Or she meant "not now" and wanted to spend more time with her before that. I know that in those types of situations, the strategy is to try it again later. In this case, this type of escalation could be considered basic screening and is still ok.
2. Her ASD got activated because we were in a bar (not that touch-friendly like a club), and anyone who was looking at us could have seen that my hand was resting on her thigh. In this case, then this type of escalation is just not appropriate for bars and should only be done in more private places like a car, home, etc.

Maybe some girls are ok with being touched on the thigh in public, but I would still take case two if those girls are not the norm, or even DTF girls get ASD as this happens. I would think that the problem is case two, and this type of escalation is just not appropriate for public places.

What do you guys think?

I think you should consider investing into a reliable ready reference you can pick up and study to better prepare yourself for engaging the opposite sex. I'd suggest that you get yourself a copy of Doc Love's "The System: The Dating Dictionary". Doc Love, who until his passing was also known as Tom Hodges, wrote a weekly advice column that's archive is mirrored on several mens focused sites and a podcast. His media is a bit pricey, but it's a solid foundation a guy can branch out from in RP aware circles. I'd suggest you review his advice column to decide if his view on dating and relationships is aligned with what you aspire for yourself. To save yourself a search, give this scribed link a gander to find out if his book is something you'd like to add to your library. It should also be available on libgen.

@SSBPikkon

Went to meet up with her, she seems dry over the text now

I met this girl through socials - I know it isn't preferable, but it works on younger girls.

I met up with 1 of her friends couple of months ago and she almost turned it into a friendzone, basically she wasn't interested in me. I stopped talking to her and time went on.

This girl I'm writing this post for - I added her through socials and her friend (which friendzoned me) basically showed my picture and all that.

That girl first said we can only be friends and this convo with me is your "sidequest", also she said her bf is super jealous - I took that like I'll fuck the shit out of her and she'll go back to her bf.

At first she didn't want to add me back, so I forgot about her and went back to my life. She again found me through her friend and added me - this is basically cheating tbh.

We talked and she invited me to come to a bar where she works and I agreed.

I also knew her from a party we went to, but she was very drunk and was with my acquaintance at the time.

Mind you - I did go out with her other friend a long time ago, I also wrote a post about her. I asked what her friend thought about all that - since she blocked me right after our date and she said she was bored, and I knew that, I was bored also with her and I had more anxiety and wasn't as comfortable as I am now.

But that didn't stop her from meeting me today, she can even ask some of her friends about me which have different opinions about me - I know less about her than she knows about me.

As soon as I came to a bar, she went all friendly-mode and started talking about her bf for a little bit.

I tried to maneuver convo into my favor, and we kinda did light flirting. She did kiss my acquaintance at the party where I was and ofc he's a womanizer and she hates all men apart from her boyfriend - you didn't hear this anywhere am I right lol.

The funny thing is I'm a "womanizer" just like that guy she was with and she put me in the same category as him basically - which is a good thing for me in this situation.

As time went on on our "date" she needed to get back to work and she didn't even come to my table - her stepfather came and her colleague she works with and they all sat and talked.

As she didn't come again to me I left, we said bye to each other and now she's dry over text.

I have more options now, but I still can't get past the 1st date - even if they're single or if they're "cheating".

I think girls like me because of my looks and that attracts them since they be looking at me at the clubs and my male friends said I'm the best looking one, but they don't get hooked right after - but that's just my opinion.

It's crazy that I went on the first date with 2 of her friends - 1 blocked me, 1 just left me on socials and now her it seems.

Where did I fumble?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpNNPW8Orag

It didn't read like you were expecting anything to accomplish anything, so I don't understand the concern about fumbling. If anything, it read like you were more interested with finding out if they were sincerely disinterested in you, despite your looks.

You got solid confirmation that good looking as you maybe, you're of little interest to that group. Now, you can study the book, continue to work on your face-to-face in-person social skills, and move on to other females.

@B0ssBabe

How to unplate her and make her refer her friends?

I have an old plate. I was banging her for years, to this day she remembers my birthday, Christmas, gifts etc. But she simply has aged out of the market.

What plausible deniability, story, to use on her so she is not offended, ego defensive when I would initiate a talk to tell her to set me up with one of her friends (no one specific in mind)?

I'm going to do it anyway so I will use the input.

I didnt bang her for months.

Consider investing into a reliable ready reference you can pick up and study to better prepare yourself for engaging the opposite sex. I'd suggest that you get yourself a copy of Doc Love's "The System: The Dating Dictionary". Doc Love, who until his passing was also known as Tom Hodges, wrote a weekly advice column that's archive is mirrored on several mens focused sites and a podcast. His media is a bit pricey, but it's a solid foundation a guy can branch out from in RP aware circles. I'd suggest you review his advice column to decide if his view on dating and relationships is aligned with what you aspire for yourself. To save yourself a search, give this scribed link a gander to find out if his book is something you'd like to add to your library. It should also be available on libgen.

@GetMoreBooks

Approach Feedback

Approached twice today, both times in the same bookstore about 10 min apart(not in sight of either of them).

Learning Game: Daybang(Not done yet)

First approach, girl was reading some book behind me, and I grabbed a book from the shelf and accidentally knocked some over. I jokingly said you didn't see anything, and she agreed and I said thanks and said we were partners in crime. I then said I like her shirt(it had a possum on it) and she said her friend gave it to her, and that she outgrew it. I said nice and asked what she was reading, and it was some book about physiology and said she was really liking it. I then asked if she wanted to grab a coffee upstairs, and I'm not sure where I went wrong here. She said she already had one and looked uncomfortable, and then I wasn't sure what to say so I just said thanks, have a nice day( a little awkwardly), and walked away. My question is why would she be uncomfortable and how can I avoid that? I don't care that I got shot down. The conversation was going great until then, like good vibes, but I'm not sure what I did to make her feel that way.

Self-Answer: Maybe it was an unconscious facial expression on my part, since I felt disappointment. Or it could of just been an issue on her part on being asked out? I think I could have done better controlling my disappointment so that's what I plan to work on.

Second approach, I was waiting in line at checkout to get a book and there were these two cuties in front of me. I asked one that was closest to me if they found anything good(girl 1), and she said yeah that she found an artbook for her friend(girl 2). I then asked girl 2 if she was an artist and she said she was in art class. I then asked about what kind of art she does, and we chatted for a second. She asked if I was an artist and I talked about a beginner sketching book I got, and how it was daunting. I then asked if I could get her number and maybe get some sketch tips from her sometime, and she said yes! I got her number, and then we traded names. I fumbled a bit after that. We still had 5 more minutes in line, and it was hard to keep the conversation going, but I managed to talk about travel a bit. I think I may of messed up by engaging so early with the long line, but it felt natural. One thing I messed up is I had to ask her name again, since I was so focused on the conversation. Now in hindsight, I think she might be a little young for me since she's in college(like 8-10 year gap, not sure what year she is). I have the following questions. Should I ask her out for coffee even though I will probably bomb with my low SMV(no job and living with parents, but I'm still working on both)? Is there an easy way to confirm she's old enough for me(like 21-22?) I don't want to date younger than that. How do you even tell a girls age when approaching, because I've seen 25 year olds that look 20 and 20 year olds that look 30? I ideally want to date 23-30 age range. How long between number and asking out do you wait?

Self-Answer: I should ask her out to coffee and bomb just for the experience. I could straight up ask her if she's graduating soon. Not sure how to tell age, maybe look for signs of age in face(light facial lines and such? I think I should text her tonight and just ask her out to coffee tomorrow while I'm still on her mind, cause she'll probably forget about me in a day or 2.

Final Question: This is the second weekend I approached at the same store, how often do you change places to deliberately day approach? Should I go to a different store?

Self Answer: I should probably try a new place every week so I don't restrict myself to one place, the reason I decided to try this place is because it's a cute bookstore that women love. Thanks.

Have you considered keeping a journal to record these efforts so you can keep tabs on your development?

@gamepilled

How do I work on my confidence? I have a major problem with it.

I have a major confidence problem, because it comes from intense childhood trauma and is much bigger than the usual problem of being a nice guy who can snap out of it.

Growing up, I was a very shy and weird kid no one liked. It was worse than the usual shy kid, because mine is an actual major problem that comes from a different source.

I was bullied and I think normies loathed me. Now it's different, but the underlying major confidence issue remains. I am improving on it by virtue of recovering from the trauma as time goes on, but it's not enough. That's a really slow process.

People want to hang out with me now because I did an active effort on social skills, but I keep getting small cues, sometimes even comments, that make it clear that I come across as insecure. Such as someone acting like I'm below him on the pecking order, or someone saying that she noticed I'm more confident lately (aka she noticed I lack confidence in the first place).

By the way, I am a 32 year old virgin, never even tried to get a woman, no woman showed romantic interest in me either, and didn't even socialize for the vast majority of my life.

I also have a chin that's so comically recessed I look ridiculous. But just now I grew a beard and that has been a massive looks improvement (I shape it carefully too). It's actually really thick and basically a jaw extension so I feel like I have a new face. A friend asked why I used to shave, I said, "idk, I had the habit and didn't question it, that was stupid", but to be honest, I actually know, and the harsh truth is that it felt weird to see myself as being masculine in the mirror.

By the way, my social life revolves around dancing and that's where I will, from now on, get over fear of rejection and approach women.

Right now I can't dance because I broke a hand by working out (which I also picked up recently), which is affecting me emotionally, and that's why I'm reconsidering all this. I found out about the redpill just now. And by reading game I noticed that it all revolves around confidence, and how important confidence is for people. And that I have to do something about this. I'm sick of people's shit, I'm sick of being treated like I'm low on the pecking order or a wimp, and I feel that I have to take that more seriously and really do something about it.

Are there some behaviors I can practice, or something I can do to see a fast change in the way I come across? So people don't instantly think that I'm insecure? My opinion is that I could leverage my social skills I've been acquiring, which allow me to have an understanding of what behaviors make me come across as insecure, and just pay more attention and make myself curb that problem. And then by behaving differently it will reflect on my self perception.

Consider investing into a reliable ready reference you can pick up and study to better prepare yourself for engaging the opposite sex. I'd suggest that you get yourself a copy of Doc Love's "The System: The Dating Dictionary". Doc Love, who until his passing was also known as Tom Hodges, wrote a weekly advice column that's archive is mirrored on several mens focused sites and a podcast. His media is a bit pricey, but it's a solid foundation a guy can branch out from in RP aware circles. I'd suggest you review his advice column to decide if his view on dating and relationships is aligned with what you aspire for yourself. To save yourself a search, give this scribed link a gander to find out if his book is something you'd like to add to your library. It should also be available on libgen.

Self-confidence usually grows as a result of pursuing and overcoming the various challenges of life. During which time, you come to understand what interests, drives, and motivates you. To that end, I suggest that you get yourself two sheets of paper and a pen.

On the first sheet write down a list of things that you've been putting off on the back burner due to work, schooling, or just life in general. It doesn't matter how silly, or stupid the task or idea might be, just write it down. When you're done, take the second sheet of paper, and re-write the items from the first list starting with what you believe to be the simplest, easiest task, to the most complicated.

When you're done with the second list, get to work. The challenge once you've got the list done won't be simply accomplishing them, but not allowing yourself to be de-spirited whenever you encounter difficulty, or failure. To not let yourself be defeated. You'll spend the time to troubleshoot and diagnose the problem, then start over. If you need help, ask. There's no shortage of #books we can recommend that may help you achieve your goal.

Best of luck to you.