I matched with a girl on Tinder and we hit it off. So when it came time to pick her up, I ran into some logistical issues (bike ran out of gas), which ended up with me being like half an hour late.

Well that was fucking dumb. Sort your shit out my dude.

She didn't seem too upset about it.

Oh she was. She really was.

I then tried getting her helmet on, messing awkwardly with the strap to the point where she took it off and did it herself. At this point, I felt like I was fumbling the entire operation due to my unpreparedness, but we went on the ride as planned.

During the ride, she was massaging my back and feeling me up a little bit, so I reciprocated by rubbing her thighs, and then we made short small talk at stoplights. Eventually, we ran into a random pack of bikers, so we just rode with them for a bit. Then I asked her if she was hungry and she said yeah, so I took her to a hot chicken place. I was still a little thrown off my game and being kinda quiet/shy here, so she carried the convo for the most part. We finished our food and then walked around the plaza, at which point I was feeling more confident.

Sounds good

My banter during the walk was good; she was laughing, etc., and we were walking hand in hand.

I personally hate hand holding before sex. I know it's physical contact but it feels a lot like "boyfriend girlfriend" and not like "your pussy is in danger right now".

And for whatever reason, she accused me of being a player multiple times, which I went along with.

It's good she says it.... and sometimes you wanna say "yeah" and sometimes you want to say "I'm not as bad as people think I am".

We eventually came to a water fountain and sat down. She was leaning on my shoulder and I thought I might go for a kiss here, so I handed her a mint and had one myself—but it didn't happen.

Ok, here's the thing. YOU CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN.

And given physical contact and mutual interest, you should make it happen.

Don't assume women know how to make it happen - they don't.

Fountain... physical contact... this was the time, you're right.

Here's how you do it next time: you go from sitting next to her to her sitting and you standing in front of her, ideally between her parted legs but your legs around hers is fine too. Lean forward and slowly tilt her head back very gently with your hands. Hold her head gently. Slowly lean in, tilt your face slightly, and you fucking kiss her.

If you do this with even 20% skill and grace, she will remember that moment for the rest of her life.

If she's borderline on the fence about her interest, this will seal it.

If she's interested yet she'll gently twist her face away...... but given physical contact and privacy and a fucking fountain, this is 95% going to work.

We headed back to the bikes, and I ended up taking her on a highway run. I ended up taking the wrong exit though, and we were lost in the middle of nowhere for a bit (strike 3).

Not ideal. Plan better.

I had to pull out the navigation on my phone and figure out where we were, and then we headed back.

Right.... not a dealbreaker, but not ideal.

So by the time I pulled back into the parking lot she left her car in, I wasn't expecting anything to happen due to the sheer amount of fuckups I had made up until this point. We kept chatting for a bit, and I didn't really feel a moment,

Then make a moment. You're a man. You can make things. You can make moments.

so I just told her I should start heading back. There was an awkward pause, and then she just came really close to me and looked into my eyes, so I just went for the kiss. We started making out (keep in mind, I haven't so much as held hands with a girl prior to this), so I didn't really know what to do.

Ok, the main point of kissing is that's it's fun, mutual, both tongues, some teasing her.

I was just feeling her up and down, grabbing her ass, etc., essentially pinning her up against the car and pressing my body into hers at this point.

Ok, that's hot.... make sure to mix in some teasing. Do stuff, then pull back.... don't just "all in". Forwards and backwards. Enjoy her, show some restraint, tease her.

I asked her if she wanted to hop in her car to "warm up a little more," to which she refused. I tried pushing a little further, kind of making a joke ("do you have cockroaches in there or something?"), and she just said, "something like that."

I'm not sure what's going on here.

So at this point, I told her we could get a hotel or Airbnb, which she also shot down.

Ok. You've gone from kissing to "let's fuck", which has missed a few more hours of comfort.

Basically at this point on a first date, given that you don't have many other options, your best bet is to just not leave. Spend more time with her. Kiss.... but then step back, get coffee, whatever.

Know a hotel bar to get coffee/drinks. That sort of thing. Not a room together, not sex.... but more time together.

Then it kinda died down from there, and we just kept chatting, holding hands, hugging, cuddling, etc. She then started telling me she knew nothing about me and that I've had walls up the entire time, and that she wants to be FRIENDS with benefits, emphasis on the friends, so she wanted to know what makes me tick and things like that.

Ok, that's good.

This is the part that confuses me the most and leads to my question. I understand logistics-wise I should have been significantly more prepared, but to be honest, I wasn't expecting to get this far, so I didn't even bring condoms, let alone make arrangements for a room. But my question is: was I not "vulnerable" enough to make her feel safe enough to be intimate? I didn't want to trauma dump obviously, cause I feel like that's the quickest way to kill the vibe. Or was it purely cause of the logistics and not having a comfy place to go back to? I also got the feeling she wanted me to be completely in charge and lead the entire thing from start to finish in a smooth manner. She did double text me this morning so i think there's still some level of interest

Ideally yes - lead the whole first date thing smoothly. You did enough though.

Once again, thank you guys for your support, and in any case, this is a huge milestone for me. Things are only gonna get better from here.

Well yes they will, because somehow you've fumbled your way to 90% of the way there.

Ok, here's what's going on:

She's attracted, into you, and yes she wants to fuck you. But you skipped 25 stages between kissing and sex...... I mean you didn't, because you said room and not sex....... but she knows that room = sex, and you've effectively said "ok, kissing, now we fuck".

She needs more time. Figure on 10-20 hours in her company before sex. A little less if you've matched on whatever. But at least 10-15 hours.

You're probably close to that if you figure on 4 hours for the first date and maybe 2 hours in a hotel room.

And 10-15 hours is a rough guideline, less if you're smooth, more if you keep fumbling it. But that's fine.

She just needs more time, more "getting to know you", share some of your past. No trauma dumping.... (Shrug and "it didn't work out" is enough). Nothing that makes you look like a failure, but a little vulnerability yes.

Logistically this is always tricky...... date to bed without saying "sex now". You need your own gameplan, but here's some ideas:

• "I'd like to spend more time with you... I'll get a hotel room, but no funny business, I barely know you".

• Go to hotel bar. Spend time with her there. Take her with you to the front desk, ask if they have any rooms for tonight... then "thanks, I'll think about it", then back to the hotel bar. It's on the table, she can drop hints. Or leave.

• Find ways to stick around and have her stick around, without it being a high pressure sex situation.

• Expect sex to be on 2nd or 3rd date and plan around this. Especially for FWB: they still don't want to be "first date sluts", so do aa first date, very quick 2nd date (eg coffee), then a great third date in which she is at your place/room early and briefly, and can easily go back there later

If you don't have your own place, this is logistically fiddly, but it can't be done. I went from meeting girls online to weekends away in hotels while living at my parents' house - you can do it too, but you need to figure out your logistics.

Also.....and I think you know this....... HANDLE YOUR FUCKING LOGISTICS.

Walls of text

No formatting

Wrong forum completely despite posting here 50x with zero success and knowing where the fuck "AskTRP" is yet you post in TheRedPill like lazy person

Plausibly never read the sidebar or looked at previous posts

Not using search bar for similar questions

Not taking endorsed/flaired advice

Some of you want to suffer. You're addicted to mediocrity. There's too much dopamine in not trying and being validated for not trying

You can't even use the basics of the site correctly and expect to succeed with women

Genuinely, to every lazy user on here, that's why you're failing. You don't even give a shit about the basics of posting on a forum with extremely experienced users and the people who invented the early stages of TRP

No one on here is even being charged for it. You're squandering FREE expert advice (assuming this applies to you not taking advice)

Seriously actually bother. Being spoonfed is not helping you

The problem is genuinely how lazy some of you guys are.

If you actually bothered to read up on everything you possibly could and critically think about common themes you wouldn't be posting 1-2 years straight without success

Usually this is how it unfolds: We make sexual jokes and innuendos during the day and when we see each other (late at night because I’m grinding 16 hours a day on my own business) she tells me she’s tired and apologizes.

Urgh, that fucking sucks.

Now the question is: How did I handle it? Am I blowing things out of proportion? We still fuck 3-4 times a week on average. Was it a good idea to communicate the boundary?

No this is not out of proportion

My idea: No more seeing each other every day, I’ll start to feel too tired for hanging out with her. Keep a close eye on her actions during the next month, if things don’t improve, leave.

Honestly you need to see her less. Drop the relationship commitment down to her sexual commitment. If that means seeing her 3x per week and having sex 3x per week then that's what you do.

Also, tell her straight up, before she comes over...... "before you come over, are you too tired?"

Bottom line: she might not be GF material. If her sex drive is lower than yours, exclusivity will kill you.

Ok, I'll try

Me: Yeah Me: Calm down Me: Because tomorrow we're going for drinks Her (replying to "Calm down"): Why? Hello? Me: Hehe

Ok, you've missed something here. You've said drinks, but you've not said why. You've not expressed that you want to spend time with her, want to find out about her, want to hang out with her. It's not that you need a reason, you don't..... but "drinks" is for men..... women need like.... something. Some connection thing here.

"Drinks tomorrow" is kinda harsh. That dynamic works sometimes, but it's very bossy and it doesn't always work. Leading is good, but "drinks tomorrow" might not for you.

Something has already gone wrong in this convo.... she says "why? hello?" which means she isn't on board with meeting you at this point in the chat.

Her (replying to "Because tomorrow we're going for drinks"): Hahaha

Her: And what am I getting with the drinks?

That's odd, and I don't know what she's getting at here. Maybe she means sex, maybe not.

Me: You'll get it before

Me: Tatar

Me: But

Me: We go band for band

No idea what that means, but if it means "we both pay", then fine but why mention it?

She's asking what she's getting (I think - you know her better than me), you're telling her that she's getting her own drinks.

Sharing drinks costs I am in favour of, but this should be an established dynamic by now, saying it like this reads as insulting.

Her: Oh, so I'm supposed to sort out the stuff for the drinks, yeah? Haha

No idea what "stuff for the drinks" means...... paying?

Her (replying to "You'll get it before"): Then I'll dress up nicely

Ok, that's a good response.

Me: Out in town

Me: We'll drink

Me: Complain

Me: About the prices

Me: And buy it at the store

Ok, you're still in functional mode here and this makes you look kinda cheap. You're mixing up some weird paying / cheap / prices stuff with "you'll get it before" and it's all coming out weird to me.

Her: Hahahha good to know, so the car is staying home tomorrow

Her: So you've already got everything planned out, nice

You're leading, she's accepting, good.

Me: Obviously

Miscalibration: there was nothing to say here. Just move on, no need for smugness.

But if you have a plan, tell her you have a plan before this. She's had to sort of wring it out of you. Just say "I have a plan", don't need to tell her, but she needs to know what her part is.

Her: Damn, then I need to get all dressed up in that case

Her: I don't know whether I should steal a second beer from a friend

Me: Steal it Me: I'm on my second one

Me: Tbh I've only got two though

Me: Strong shit

Her: One was enough to get me because I hadn't eaten anything, but it got me nicely hah

Ok, cutting out lots of beer talk.

Her: I don't know, but I can take care of you

Nice

Me: Exactly, damn

Me: Now I'm in the mood

Her: I know, because me too

Her: So you need to keep in mind that I can take very good care of you

Ok, that's a really nice thing to say.

Me: You really do take care of me Me: Very Me: Well

Good.

Her: That's just my charm, I know how to take care of someone I want

Very good.

Me: Girll Me: What the hell Me: What got into you?

Eh???? Why would you say that?

Her: What did I tell you yesterday? Her: Besides, I can stop

She feels emotionally exposed. She has just declared massive interested and you are calling her out on it.

Me (replying to "Besides, I can stop"): What's with those claws? Me: Unnecessary

Woah. Now your criticising her.

Her: Isn't that something you happen to like about me?

Me: Love-hate relationship

Fuck. I feel sorry for this poor girl

Her: I think you're more on the hate side Her: I guess you don't want me taking care of you

Right. This convo went sideways because you threw her off a cliff.

Me: What do you mean I don't? Me: I like being taken care of by you

Her: Sometimes I get a different impression

Because you directly attacked her when she expressed this.

Me: Howww?

Her: I told you that last time

Me: Damn Me: Look, I'm practically starving to death Me: Otherwise I'd eat your pancakes

This is NOT a time for sex talk - she is emotionally vulnerable, feeling hurt, and you're trying to flirt.

Her (replying to "Otherwise I'd eat your pancakes"): Come over, there are still some left and you'd get dessert while you're at it

Her: Nice change of subject

Me: I was hoping you'd be the dessert

Her: You nailed it - me + whipped cream

Me: Someone's freaky today

Her: Maybe a little, or maybe I'd like you to lick the whipped cream off me that's just sitting there going to waste

Me: Fuck the whipped cream Me: We could do without it

Look, I know this is trying to sound hot, but you've just dismissed her whole whipped cream idea. You've said "fuck your effort and fuck your foreplay and fuck your flirting, I can just bang you".

Her: But with the whipped cream it would be different Her: More intense

Me: Right now Me: I wouldn't have the patience for that

Oh ffs

Her: You have to, that's the point Her: Gradually, slowly

Me: Exactly, because you're teasing me

Her: And the tension would keep building

Read again what she's saying, read your responses. She is being clear as day, and you're being a caveman.

Her (replying to "Exactly, because you're teasing me"): I really like teasing you Her: And you like it when I tease you

Me: You know very well

Her: I know very well, and I know you really want me to be next to you right now

Me: Oh, I do Me: But that's not how we're playing Me: Girlll Me: Damn Me: This is some voodoo type shit

What the fuck

Her: You'd like it to be voodoo, but it isn't

Her (replying to "Oh, I do"): Exactly Her: I also know that if I were at your place right now, you'd take my clothes off faster than ever

Me: Fuck Me: I've been thinking about it all day

Her: Now you're going to spend the whole night thinking about it too

Me: Professional Me: Amazing

Her: And you know what you can do for me right now? Her: Remember how we spent that last night together Her: Remember the way I looked at you Her: What I felt when I was with you Her: And the satisfaction we felt

Wow, that's lovely

Me: Oh Me: A religious experience

And that's fucked up.

Don't summarise, you tell her HOW YOU FELT.

Her: Please don't bring religion into this, because I'd say it had very little to do with religion

Me: Fuuuck Me: What is this supposed to be? Me: That's not fair

Her: I think I know what - your hand on my neck

Me: Oh, not only on your neck

Her: Where else?

Me: You'll find out tomorrow

Shutting her down.

Her: But I'm curious, I want to know now

Me: Nah Me: Surprises are the best Me: Wait until tomorrow

Her: Yhmmm, you're ruining my fun

You really are.

Me: Mhmm Me: You'll make up for it tomorrow

Her: I'd rather it were today, and you'd rather it were today too

Me: Unfortunately Me: The stars didn't align for today

Her: Mhmm, the stars Her: Now you've completely ruined it, I don't like that

She has been trying so hard to get sexy with you over text and you have ruined it at every step.

Me: So you're saying it just worked out badly

Her: You're just really mean

Me: Yeah, I know, I know (kissing emoji)

Her: In that case, I guess there's no point in me being here [this in my language sounds much much harsher - like "then fuck you, I don't want to have anything in common with you"]

Ok, there's a lot of detail, but here's the main thing: you completely miss everything she says, you steam roll over her with your ideas of..... dominance? hardcore TRP "fuck you" attitude? You dismiss what she says, and you carry on with your own ideas that are half playful and half "fuck this texting shit".

So here's how you do texty sexy talk:

It's like improv comedy. You build on what she says. A very occasional "nope, we're doing this instead" is fine, and it's fine to lead, but you build on what she says, you don't dismiss it. She says "cover me in whipped cream and lick it off" you say "my tongue is very, very thorough" or "I fucking love whipped cream, I bet it tastes even better off your skin". God damned anything except "nope, just gonna bang you".

And the whole taking care of you thing from her: that's as good as women get. That's the fucking best. They rarely act like that and rarely express it and don't feel like that usually for most men. And you threw out those deep caring feelings and trashed them like there were nothing. Don't do that. She's not asking for marriage, she's expressing deep feelings. Don't dismiss them because of your own baggage.

I think this is too early to worry. To be honest if after a couple of years, you are getting it 3 to 4 times a week, you are one of the fortunate ones. My present lady was always up for it (which is why I kept her), but now she has hit the wall and the frequency has fallen well below 3 to 4 times and I am left with a sour post waller. One way or another it always falls off in the end no matter what. That's relationships with women. You either spin plates or eventually end up getting less than you want.

I am not saying "Oh yeah all is well" but you will have to see how it pans out. Worries really are passion killers for women. If she has a worry, it will effect her sex drive for sure. Keeping them worry free is key to good sex but trying too hard to do that can turn men into worker drones dealing with all of a woman's problems, keeping her like a child, just so he can nut in her a few times a week. Whatever you do don't fix her financial problem just to keep her lubed. Many men would. Many men would end up enslaved that way. You can be understanding but in the end she will have to be able to cope with life well enough herself to keep a good sex drive (just as a woman would expect you to).

I think it would be worse the other way around if you had to keep her satisfied because with a 16 hour a day grind you would fail to. If it works out that it was a temporary hitch and you get good sex a few times a week, that is as good as it is likely to get. If it trails off then it may not be her fault -just poor desire maybe from stress but that doesn't fix it from your end and you will have to maybe drop her if you are not satisfied. Only time will tell.

Making it clear what your needs are is important but if you over do pointing our her falling short, it tends to add to her stress, reducing her sex drive. I wouldn't try to make it look like you were not seeing her as "punishment for not putting out". If you can't take the frustration then yes its definitely best to avoid her but if you make it into a thing she notices, it may get some results art first but in the end it may end up with her feeling more stress, less supported and less up for it. So I would try to keep it light when it comes to not seeing her. We know relationships are grounded firmly on sex but women like to feel they are grounded on love and if you are not loving her because she is not putting out, it tends to at first make her put out more in desperation and later dry up from feeling un loved and un supported. Inform her of things not being ideal but don't lay the weight of responsibility for you not seeing her ("not being there for her") on her. They don't take responsibility well. Its not fair but that's women. They are not fair. They do not carry their load of responsibility well.

In the end it comes down to your making a private decision of where you draw that line but give her time to prove herself. We can all hit bumps in life and be sub optimal.