@deeplydisturbed Wow. Okay, first off, that was… kind of impressive, man. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone rattle off Trump’s CV like that. If nothing else, you just proved you actually did your homework instead of just parroting headlines like most people nowadays. You’re right about one thing straight away: saying “he’s not a builder” like it’s some objective fact was sloppy. I get why that hit you the way it did. If someone said that about my work, I’d probably go off too. So, yeah, it's and oversimplification

It's obviously not that the guy never built anything. From where I’m sitting, it sounds like what you really respect isn’t even Trump specifically, it’s this pattern: somebody who starts with less power than the establishment, crashes the party anyway, and then keeps getting back up after getting hit from every direction. That builder of momentum, builder of a movement, builder of a brand, builder of political machinery. I get the appeal of that. I really do. I fucking loved Trump during his first presidency. Part of me finds that cool as hell in a vacuum.

That list you gave? Tower after tower, resort after resort, models, pageants, TV shows, steaks, vodka, airlines, apps, even stupid board games. It paints a picture:

THIS GUY WAKES UP AND FUCKS “What else can I slap my dick on and scale?”

That’s not nothing. Most people never even finish one project.

Look, I’m too am done taking lectures from people who’ve built exactly zero things and act superior to someone who actually executed (Kamala lol). I’m with you there. I despise hypocritical armchair moralists. I fucking hate them. Where I still get stuck, and I’m just being honest with you here, is on what he builds, how he builds it, and who ends up holding the bag. Help me out with this: If there’s a guy who builds a ton of projects (towers, casinos, whatever) but a bunch of them go bankrupt, investors get wiped out, contractors have to sue to get paid, and he personally walks away fine.

Would you call that:

A) A brilliant builder who plays the game hard, or

B) A world-class self-promoter who builds mainly himself, or

C) Some messy mix of both?

That tension is important. It’s the difference between “builder” as in “engineer of value for everyone involved” and “builder” as in “I always land on my feet and everyone else is optional.” And on the politics side, yeah, he absolutely built a machine. You’re right, he bulldozed the GOP, he beat people everyone assumed were untouchable, he tapped into a part of the country that felt invisible. That’s real, and pretending it isn’t real is just denial. That part was amazing. Breathtaking. But here’s where I get nervous and maybe you can tell me if I’m being unfair: If someone can build that big a machine around themselves, and gets millions of people to emotionally invest in him as the savior, doesn’t that also make it incredibly easy for the whole thing to be weaponized around his personal grudges? Like, imagine the same talent, same ferocity, same willingness to break things but aimed at building institutions that outlast him, instead of orbiting around him. That’s the “builder” I want in charge.

I don’t blame you one bit for being done with the established order. We all are. That is one of the reasons why we are here. If I’d watched the same people lie for years about wars, bailouts, and “this time we really care,” I’d be looking for a wrecking ball too. Hell, I was wishing for it. Manifesting it in my mind. The part I’m scared of is handing the wrecking ball to someone who profits from keeping things wrecked. You also wrote something that stuck with me: that comment about what pushed you to the Right. I respect the hell out of your instinct to back someone you think actually fights instead of someone who just recites talking points. I just don’t want the disgust with the system, which we all share, to turn into giving a lifetime hall pass to any one man because he swings at our enemies.

Let me put it this way: If some other person came along, no last name “Trump,” no TV fame, and they built a movement that was just as strong, but they were more transparent, less chaotic, less wrapped up in their own brand, etc. Would you be open to them? Or is it specifically him that's non-negotiable now?

That’s the part I’m curious about. Because the more I read about it they way you write about him and many others the more I think what you we actually love is builders in general, people who take risk, get bloody, and keep going. That’s a value we all can agree on. I mean it's in the sidebar.

Honestly? I see that in the people who post on here more than I see it in half the names you just listed. You’re the one who just sat here, pulled facts, connected dots, made a coherent case off the top of your head. That’s builder mentality. I’d rather see guys like us build our own thing, business, community, whatever, than pour all that fuel into defending some old guy who barely knows his employees’ names. But that’s me. I may be wrong. I am wrong a lot. You’ve clearly thought about this more than most people I’ve talked to.

I appreciate the list and honestly some things surprised me too.