@tb87670 Absolutely. This is where I think 'cause and effect' is a better way to think.

Evola talks about it. Free yourself from an imposed moral imperative and take actions. If you don't like the effect, see it as an error and not a 'moral failing'.

I believe that most of us have an inner core and we won't choose the worst actions consistently. But we need to free ourselves to make that discovery. What is congruent with OUR core as well as what actually gets the effects we desire.

You don't want to be congruent with an externally enforced moral code. Usually, that shit is just the interest of a controlling group.

Carl Jung talks about this as well. We ultimately need access to all parts of ourselves. We need to be 'whole' and accept and express those parts that would be deemed 'immoral'.

Those 'immoral' parts become part of our shadow and can cause problems.

If we don't integrate those parts, he believed, it leaves us open to deffer to someone or a system to tell us how to behave.

Basically, fuck Theism. The idea of an outside, moralistic God who literally told us a list of commandments.

God is far beyond good and evil

@NZT-48 Christianity only worked back in the day due to the punishments. They didn't just promise hell to sinners. They tortured them in odd and cruel ways. Knights killed each other for the sake of chivalry over how a woman of high value was treated by the other. Killed. They did not get on Maury or Dr. Phil and cry, they killed each other.

Today we are more soft and less extreme when it comes to enforcing morals, that leaves morals as a weakness more than an asset today since any effective opponent will not have them. Note China getting their own people sick with COVID and flying plane loads of them to the US to hurt our economy and Trump. Perfect weapon able to damage our economy better than physically bombing factories and the best part was it could be used without military retaliation while still damaging their enemy greatly. That is sick shit but it was effective because they ditched all morals to win. The world is still arguing whether to even hold them accountable, that's the genius part of them bio-bombing us and themselves at the same time.

@Crownofstars

I think Nietzsche was right when he said we need to Transvaluate all values, in every place. What is considered EVIL in society is actually GOOD, and vice versa. EVERYWHERE. What the left attacks most is what is most true.

Forgot to address this in my last reply.

I agree, funnily enough. In a post I made recently I proposed something along these lines through a method of trial to the individual which would bring self actualisation. The opposite is clearly the case in the modern world, the less you try to do the more comfortable you can be, but our lizard brains are affronted and we become miserable and depressed because we do nothing and achieve nothing.

Self actualisation on a large scale leads to an actualised culture that is capable of great feats of wonder, many testaments to this fact spread across the ancient world. Self actualisation doesn't come without the sacrifice of our comforts and our present though, imagine telling kids these days what they would have to sacrifice to be truly happy? Ha! No, it's more important for degeneracy to prosper so that they can emulate meaning for the least amount of cost to themselves.

@Crownofstars

I'll concede to the BLM point, as your description of their religious fervour is actually quite accurate. Perhaps it is a latent appeal to conservative values? A thin mockery of a prevailing culture that they hope to emulate through their actions? This itself is worth exploring in more detail.

Could Christianity have any other conclusion than what we are seeing now?

Interesting question, with no easy answer. Whereas you see the moral values of Christianity as a form of stasis for the adherents, I see it as a map for the lost.

If I were to use Plato's example of the shadow on the wall of the cave as an example (the shadow in this case being Jesus' teachings) the exoteric understanding of the shadow has one dimension, one state of being. Quite rightly, this shadow doesn't exist without the source of light, which I would provide as the 'meaning' behind the teaching.

The shadow then, is the literal form of the teaching, observed and understood only as it appears on the wall. If one could only turn their head to see the light, they would see beyond the shadow and then be able to explore the esoteric. It's all well and good understanding the shadow, but all it ever is is an opinion. The shadow is good for the exoteric because the corruption of the church can interpret the shadow to its own benefit. Money, power, structure, culture. Now that I've done this analogy sufficiently to death, whether I can rightly suggest that the doctrine of the church is separated from the message of Christ and God is another debate entirely, but an assertion I would make nonetheless in being pivotal in answering your question.

I see the inherent value in Christian morality because I don't look at them from the perspective of the shadow, I see what casts the shadow and move to understand that instead. If this were at all achievable on a grand scale, then I would answer yes, there would be other conclusions, but the water is so muddied that it would take sending anyone who is over ten years old into exile and starting over from a new generation.

@Osiris You can find tons of wisdom in tons of different religious traditions. That doesn't make it special. I'm not saying you can't learn something from the Bible, but to call yourself a Christian and ascribe to Christian morality is a solid indicator of Blue Pill conditioning. For example, I have yet to see a Christian marriage where the man is a "leader". It is 9/10 times the woman with the ballsack. You'd be pressed to find a single masculine man giving up pussy for the 'kingdom'.

The teachings of Christianity were taken literally during the beginning of the Church, and you had a Commune of Metaphysical Communists in Acts. It only changed through the attempts of Missionaries to convert the Germanic tribes in the 400s-600s, where they had to shift tactics and merge the teachings with the culture. The culture you are defending is a mixture of Germanic, Roman, and Christian teachings (See: The Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity by James C. Russell). Even then, from the beginning the ideal is seen as a world denier in pursuit of Christ. See Confessions by St. Augustine, Meditations on the Life of Christ by Thomas A Kempis, Summa Theologica, St. Paul etc. It is the highest ideal of Christianity, when in every tradition prior it was a warrior, and spirituality was considered highest in the warrior. See: Roman Honor, the Fire in the Bones

As for the kids who go to Church vs those who don't, the same underlying moral framework and religious fervor remain. Sure, they disagree on things like Abortion, fornication, LGBTQ, etc. But they are more alike then say, ancient Babylonians. Both world views stem from Christian morality. What you see with BLM is the moral teaching of "love your neighbor as yourself" "love one another as I have loved you" ---> Equality and brotherhood among all men ---> EQUALITY INSANITY.

BLM has some similarities to Christianity. Think about it: you have their Jesus in Ferguson. He died "unjustly". You have religious fervor in those that now see him as a saint. You have moral posturing, you have guilt, you have atonement, you have the same moral outlook that condemns violence, separation, hierarchy, power, etc. I'm not systematizing here, I just see similarities. Finally, I can't even agree on the last point: there is no nihilism in these movements, or in this younger generation. Just because you are atheist doesn't mean you are a nihilist. That is a conflation. The masses believe in right and wrong, you see this in BAM by BAP, GLOGANG, LGBTQ+ , MARXISM, etc. There is no middle ground anymore. Maybe Stephan M (Though he is a dork, and wrong.), but even HE was pushed out of the picture. Conservative Jews are now considered fringe lmao. Clown world.

I do have one question: Could Christianity have any other conclusion than what we are seeing now? I don't think so, given the beliefs and teaching propagate, it would lead to a secular morality which will lead to this insanity all over again. I think Nietzsche was right when he said we need to Transvaluate all values, in every place. What is considered EVIL in society is actually GOOD, and vice versa. EVERYWHERE. What the left attacks most is what is most true.