@Lightmilktea

Update: I revealed to my wife of 3 years that I never had or will have oneitis, and now she plans to leave me in the future

After the whole fiasco that I posted about recently (www.forums.red/p/asktrp/324482/perspective_needed_after_a_huge_fight_my_wife_refused_to_go "After a huge fight, my wife refused to go to therapy or any third party."), I digested the advice and implemented it. On Sunday night, for the first time in days, my wife and I were able to talk, and without any therapist or third party; I learned and upped my game: I "trained" her how to talk by me rerspnding only when she was reasonable, and as soon as she starts fighting, I would disengage. I also mantained my frame and stuck to it. I explained as much as I felt was right, while she was receptive to it. We felt so happy we could reconcile without a therapist, and we reconciled with sex.

Unexpectedly, after the reconciliation, we somehow talked about the topic of multiple wives, and she asked "And you don't want it?" For the first time, I answered, "I'm not sure," and then I had some work to do and she was cooperative, but it led her to have a sleepless night as she struggled with my response. Here, I really had to implement what I learned by controlling my emotions patiently, prioritizing my work over her emotions, even if it meant poor sleep for her.

The next day, I insisted on going out for my daily morning "coffee" before talking, but she insisted with tears that I have the talk now without delay, as she cooperated last night. This was where I faced a dilemma, if I should go out first or give in. This time though, I chose to give in, having compassion. I also reasoned that, okay, she cooperated by letting me work and this is a huge topic, so I made her agree not to interrupt until I was done, and if I had brain fog, she asked for it. So then we sat down and I talked for a little over an hour:

I revealed that before meeting her 3.5 years ago, I was already very open to polygyny (an antidote to oneitis), having studied it and came to my convictions that it was biblical, despite the popular opposition of most of society and christendom. After meeting her online, I fell so hard in love, I thought I might turn monogamous, naive as this was my first relationship, so what I said to her made it seem I was monogamous. Things moved very fast and I moved to her continent, pursuing her. Unbenownst to me, I would be trapped in her prison-like family circumstances and I would be overwhelmed by her fears, being the receiving end of her anxiety of her controlling father, and be coerced into submitting to him, and by extension, her and her fears. This led to the hardest years of my life and I let myself be pushed around patiently and with endurance. After 1.5 years of suffering, finally I was allowed to wed her and we moved in to our house. This led to another 9 months of suffering as she didn't know how to behave in a marriage or a team, and my leadership wasn't strong enough for her kind of behaviour. During these years of suffering, I said, during the most difficult moments, other than God, the hope of having polygyny as an option was what gave me the strength to endure; otherwise I would have definitely broken up with her if she had been my only option, and we would not have what we are having today. Therefore, polygyny, I said, made a big part of the foundation of our relationship.

I continued that I hid it from her as she was my first so I was learning; plus I felt the time wasn't right yet, but now felt like the time to reveal it, with all the fights, and before having children. I explained to her that as things got better in the past year, I tried to pray to be convinced that polygyny was a sin and that monogamy was the only way, but it didn't work for me and I can't unsee it. I also explained that only a small percentage of men is monogamous, and the majority are capable of multiple sexual partners, but a lot are in denial, don't want to lose their wife, or don't want to be hated. That's why, I said, we see a lot of men have affairs, cheat, and have side chicks. I said that I was not going to cheat as I'm religious, so I'd rather just be straightforward and honest with my values. For this talk, I didn't need to use DARE, as she was listening.

She was very shocked and did not take it well at all. And then she proceeded to spend the whole day trying to break my frame with her frame. She said it was the worst day of her life, and that she was a monogamous woman (non-negotiable) and that she would not accept me being polygynous. I tried to counter, saying that as the marriage had been going better, I might not use my polygyny option after all as I want to do other things than having many children, and so chances are 98% monogamy 2% polygyny, but that did not satisfy her one bit as she required 100%. So then I said, okay, what if, even though I have years of conviction, I would study it more, and if I get convicted it's wrong, then I'd be monogamous. And she said that she wouldn't accept it either, as she wanted to be the one and only, so if I didn't do polygyny because it was wrong, it wouldn't be satisfying enough to her. I tried to explain why having an option was important to me as a man. She very soon reverted back to her defensive mode and stopped listening. So I had to use some DARE here and exit the conversation. I tried to treat her normally so things won't be weird, but it was too heartbreaking for her to bear as she said she had no choice but to make plans to leave me in the near future. So at this point I was virtually "wifeless" and went out to get some air and think.

So I thought about what was the right thing to do; if I should just leave and get out of here immediately, but it didn't feel right. So after much thought, I had some clarity and went back home to say:

I'd like to complete my mission of gaining her freedom that she wanted all along, by moving cities (to the busy capital) so we won't live a few streets away from her overbearing and controlling father. Then I would feel satisfied and we can separate. We would find our new individual lives in the busy capital, or I might go to a new place altogether. At first, she mocked my mission and she cried and cried a lot; even almost got violent, but luckily now I had upped my DARE game and "threatened" to just leave right now and not complete the mission due to the mockery; agreed with her that I was crazy; it was a very difficult game for me as I treaded the line between tough love and being an asshole. I went out again and she gave me so many missed calls, so I blocked her temporarily; just stating the time I'd be back. I won the DARE game, and came back to talk some more as she had calmed down. I was genuinely concerned at this point.

We talked some more and she realized in a big way for the first time: That she was monopolizing my time and that the marriage served her way more than it served me: I helped her achieve a lot of her goals whereas she only helped me with attention and sex, but not my goals that she knew about. She cried as she realized this aspect of her selfishness, and during the crying she had an idea: She would not have children with me but could still be my wife until we fulfil the mission in less than 2 years (timing due to financial and regulation matter, as I'm a foreigner and am getting my visa), and I'd define a deadline for us to separate and divorce so she can have the chance to find someone else and still have children young, and I could find someone else too.

Between now and this deadline, I'd like to have some hope that my wife will change her mind to be accepting of my values and stay with me. I would further try to convince her at the right moments, but of course the final choice I'll leave to her, as I don't want to control her free will.

Today, I feel really great, confident, and with new energy. I can show love to my wife as long as it lasts and as long as she is willing to receive it, in my way and with my leadership. I'm more secure, and I've upped my game in handling her so I don't fear her bad behaviour no more. I feel almost the way I felt when I was vetting her: Confident, being bold in a sexual way, being witty. She appears to like my new energy and joy. With this limited time left, she would like to reciprocate and support me in my goals beyond just giving me attention and sex as usual.

From her behaviour, I don't think the The Lightswitch Effect applies as we both still love each other very much. I tested the Briffault's Law on her, with her freedom from her oppressve father as the benefit. Going back there she said feels like death to her (we could compare it to a Nazi concentration camp). So, I think Briffault's Law applies to this situation like 50%. After reading "Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks", perhaps my arrangement gives me strong points for both? Idk...

Of course, we know what a woman says and does is different. I'd like to appreciate the community for their insights and honest constructive criticism on my previous post, and I'd like insights on this new situation please.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6D71kQRhA

@qzone

Where would you be without the red pill?

At times I’ll doubt certain aspects of the red pill like the dark triad shit or when the married red pill takes complete ownership of the wife’s mental illness shit, just to a name a couple.

But then I think about where my life would be if it weren’t for Rollo Tomassi, Aaron Clarey, Rian Stone, the married red pill subreddit, and the old red pill sub reddit. I probably wouldn’t be making the money I am, I wouldn’t have had the sexual experiences I’ve had, I probably wouldn’t have the level of physical fitness I have, or be as positive and optimistic as I am without the red pill. I doubt I would be in the position to where I don’t worry whatsoever about being able to source new women or keep them around. I’m sure I would’ve wifed and knocked up some homely trainwreck townie, be working a dead end job, fat, playing an MMO in my mom’s basement.

I like many men, was at a total loss with dating and wanted desperately to succeed. I thought there was something just wrong with me, I thought I thought about it too much. I didn’t realize that a lot of other guys really struggle with dating too, and we’re not exactly given a great instruction manual by society or our families. I’m not saying the red pill has been directly the cause for all of the positive in my life but it was the catalyst to stop letting life happen to me and start taking ownership.

I spent a lot of time listening to the wrong people like Fresh and Fit, and I’m definitely not an expert now/make stupid purple pill decisions I regret later, but I ask you guys, what would your life look like if not for the red pill? I am genuinely curious.

Where would I be without the red pill?

@Lightmilktea

Perspective needed! After a huge fight, my wife refused to go to therapy or any third party. Updates included

[9/27, 21:04] Me: I just wanted to inform you that your mom sent an Uber to deliver carrot cake that she made. So I have put it in the fridge, and we will both hold our peace so there will be enough peace to eat soon.

[9/27, 21:06] My Wyfe: I'm not doing therapy with you

[9/27, 21:15] Me: We can barely talk about things anymore other than banal day-to-day things, otherwise it would cause a fight. This means our marriage is currently dysfunctional. You have said it is impossible to talk to me like 3 to 10 times, and I can't seem to get through to you either. Hopefully it can be solved within a few days like our other bad fights in the past. If not, the only way is to get a third-party: A therapist, friend, counsellor, family member, or anyone to help us communicate again and solve it.

[9/27, 21:15] My Wyfe: BECAUSE OF YOU

[9/27, 21:17] My Wyfe: It feels like a trap

[9/27, 21:18] Me: I have said that the third party can also be from your side, to avoid any conflict of interest.

[9/27, 21:19] My Wyfe: It's all because what I say is not important

Here is a copy of my messages sent to my sister-in-law for context:

​[9/27, 14:36] Me: We're currently fighting. I'm trying to be a better leader, but perhaps it makes things look worse before they get better.

​[9/27, 20:47] Me: Hello, our marriage is in danger. I don't think there will be enough peace at home for [you to visit] tomorrow. I can't talk to her anymore without a third party, and she feels the same way about talking to me. I urgently need a couple's therapist, but she doesn't accept that yet. So our communication has just died, you know? Help from any third party is crucial.

​[9/27, 21:00] Me: I think [we as a couple] worked during the 3 years we have been married because I tolerated and prioritized her happiness, but now the time has come for me to prioritize both: her happiness and mine too, because I'm the leader of the family (de facto, and she agrees and wants these roles); the health of my soul or the lack of it spreads to everyone within the family. It affects all areas: progress, happiness, finances, health, and much more. It's been 3 years, so the time has come for me to put my happiness on the same level as hers.

​[9/27, 21:44] Me: I think [the problem is] that I want to do what I want without worrying "Would this make her happy or sad?" more frequently than is healthy, and she takes things too personally that don't have much to do with her and gets scared of making me sad; and now she wrote that she doesn't want any third party because talking to one automatically means that I belittle what she wants to say.

Update [27/09, 22:33] I decided to go to another state far away for 7 days so I can have some air (I have never done this before, as I don't want to, and furthermore it would really rock the boat, as her father can be controlling) and in hopes that she might agree to the therapy during and that we might solve it with a therapist remotely before I come back.

So that got me thinking that I didn't want the terrible fight to be my last memory. So I said, "We definitely cannot solve this now, but I got worried that this would be my last memory, in case I die tonight, so I'll hug you now."

During the long hug, she asked me if I really think a third party or therapist would help, and if so, I could get one.

I didn't reveal it to her, but this made me really mad as I lost my reason for the break, as the fight was really bad and I wanted some time for myself.

This "theme" has happened so many times (in the past 3 to 4 years of us together) that I feel played. Every time, she repeatedly says something I believe deserving of a break or other consequences (in this case, "I'm not doing therapy with you"), and as soon as I hug her, she says "Okay we can do therapy," and expects everything to be fine.

Every time in the past I forgive her just like that, but even though she sounded sincere with the apology just now, the fight was so bad that now I really feel played and tested.

I always like to ask if I'm wrong first, so am I in any wrong here?

Update [28/09, morning] This morning before going out and having some time to myself, I hugged her as I really do love her despite things not currently working out. However, we starting talking and in less than 2 minutes it became a fight before I stopped it and reminded her that we needed and had agreed to get a therapist first. This makes me still feel like going somewhere far away to fix it remotely can be justified, as we are too dysfunctional right now, and I can't afford being dysfunctional as I work from home and need the environment to be more or less calm in order to work properly. Our bank balance is currently low as well so I can't just argue all day or be too sad or affected to work.

Consider investing into a reliable ready reference you can pick up and study to better prepare yourself for engaging the opposite sex. I'd suggest that you get yourself a copy of Doc Love's "The System: The Dating Dictionary". Doc Love, who until his passing was also known as Tom Hodges, wrote a weekly advice column that's archive is mirrored on several mens focused sites and a podcast. His media is a bit pricey, but it's a solid foundation a guy can branch out from in RP aware circles. I'd suggest you review his advice column to decide if his view on dating and relationships is aligned with what you aspire for yourself. To save yourself a search, give this scribed link a gander to find out if his #book is something you'd like to add to your library. It should also be available on libgen.

@zchree

Am I fucking up?

Consider investing into a reliable ready reference you can pick up and study to better prepare yourself for engaging the opposite sex. I'd suggest that you get yourself a copy of Doc Love's "The System: The Dating Dictionary". Doc Love, who until his passing was also known as Tom Hodges, wrote a weekly advice column that's archive is mirrored on several mens focused sites and a podcast. His media is a bit pricey, but it's a solid foundation a guy can branch out from in RP aware circles. I'd suggest you review his advice column to decide if his view on dating and relationships is aligned with what you aspire for yourself. To save yourself a search, give this scribed link a gander to find out if his #book is something you'd like to add to your library. It should also be available on libgen.